Forgiveness of sins

Deuteronomy

New Member
Hello yet again @American Gothic (et al), in His high priestly prayer, the Lord Jesus prayed for us to be sanctified .. John 17:17, and He later promised us (through the pen of the Apostle Paul) that He would make sure that we are (continually sanctified/perfected, that is, and that from here to Glory .. e.g. Philippians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; Hebrews 7:25).

My question is, what do you believe being "sanctified" or "perfected" in Christ means (specifically, in a practical sense) :unsure:

Thanks!

~Deut

Philippians 1
6 I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
.
 

Deuteronomy

New Member
I thought that I should add one last thought about believers and the sins that we sometimes continue to commit, this one from theologian & pastor A.W. Pink (as I believe, along with Dr. Pink, that our response to sin can be a blessing to us in more ways than one, as our response to it can also help us know/have the assurance that we really are who we claim to be, in Christ :)).

~Deut

172598043.BgvTCMuQ.Pinknotabs_essors.jpg
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
So it is for us (believers) and the ongoing relationship that we have with our loving Abba/Heavenly Father.

So, while our salvation is not lost when we sin as believers, the closeness of the relationship or fellowship that we formerly enjoyed with God certainly is, and that is the very thing that we, as believers, are looking to reestablish with Him. King David is a good, Biblical example of this kind of thing I think, because when He confessed His sins (of adultery and murder) to God in Psalm 51, he pleaded with Him to "restore .. the ~JOY~ of His salvation", not salvation itself, because that had not be lost (even though his sins were grievous).
.
I still see this as Old covenant stuff
they had things they could do to restore Fellowship under that particular covenant relationship

in Messiah now already, and with His work on our behalf, we should be wearing our big boy or big girl pants - no more Tutor
we already have His righteousness imputed to Us, and that is how our Heavenly Father sees Us in the New covenant and in His Son
we are already Established
 
Last edited:

American Gothic

Well-known member
Hello yet again @American Gothic (et al), in His high priestly prayer, the Lord Jesus prayed for us to be sanctified .. John 17:17, and He later promised us (through the pen of the Apostle Paul) that He would make sure that we are (continually sanctified/perfected, that is, and that from here to Glory .. e.g. Philippians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; Hebrews 7:25).

My question is, what do you believe being "sanctified" or "perfected" in Christ means (specifically, in a practical sense) :unsure:t
to some degree, we have already been Sanctified, no?
" But you were washed, you were sanctified, (and) you were justified in the name of the LORD Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Cor 6

James may have struggled with this (I don't know)
John might have been on the fence a bit (I don't know) but
Paul (former Pharisee) seems far and away whole hog New covenant teaching and I assume Living "but now, in Christ Jesus"

are we still at present sinners? yes
is this a concern to God? I don't think so
is this a license to sin, of course not
can we be fully confident in our place in Him? absolutely
and our eventual Glorification is not only promised, it is assured
"Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." Romans 8
 
Last edited:

American Gothic

Well-known member
an individual's sins are not what is keeping them out of a relationship with God at this point
unbelief is
lack of trust is just making some doubt the depth of the Relationship they already have
and hindering their growth within it, and their level of understanding

belief is the beginning of the relationship, trust is the relationship
we should want growth, not grieving

people under the Mosaic law/covenant were still spiritually dead people
a child of God is someone who has already been (re)born of the will of God
 
Last edited:

Yakuda

Well-known member
some people prefer to live as if still bound
some like to try keep others in bondage to their sins - it's a Power thing

some understand they are already completely forgiven
and God is remembering sins no more

if and when a reminder is needed, He can check the books -
"And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened.
And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books" Revelation 20
lolz
So you just go off on tangents. Jesus says it you deny it. Good plan
 
Last edited:

Yakuda

Well-known member
Matthew 2: 1 A few days later, when Jesus again entered Capernaum, the people heard that he had come home. 2 They gathered in such large numbers that there was no room left, not even outside the door, and he preached the word to them. 3 Some men came, bringing to him a paralyzed man, carried by four of them. 4 Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus by digging through it and then lowered the mat the man was lying on. 5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”
6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”


Another way to put this is that only God can forgive sin, but we can forgive one another. We can forgive the person for what they did, but we cannot forgive them of sins against God.
Again not what Jesus said. BTW it was God who gave them the authority to forgive sins so it is God forgiving sins. Another fine example of people ignoring Jesus
 

Deuteronomy

New Member
to some degree, we have already been Sanctified, no?
" But you were washed, you were sanctified, (and) you were justified in the name of the LORD Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Cor 6
Hello again American Gothic, before I begin my reply, I thought that I say that my purpose is not to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. We hold many beliefs in common, and most of the rest is between us and the Holy Spirit to work out.

That said, I would like to reply to some of the things that you've said, as well give you a little bit better picture of how I have come to understand some of this and why. So, let me start with the verse (1 Corinthians 6:11) that you posited for us above, and give you a second verse or two to consider as well (interestingly, this was one of the topics that we discussed last Sunday night in my small group/Bible Study on the Book of Hebrews, Chpt 10).

When God causes us to be born again and we come to saving faith in Him (and are thereby saved/justified as a result), we are also sanctified at that moment too (due to the mighty work that God did in us to change us/make us alive in His Son .. e.g. Ezekiel 36:26-27; Ephesians 2:4-5). However, that's only the beginning of the process. So yes, when we were saved, we were also sanctified (as the Greek aorist, indicative tense indicates in 1 Corinthians 6:11), but sanctification is also a present and ongoing reality in the life of every believer, as the Greek present tense indicates in verses like the following,

Hebrews 2
11 Both He who sanctifies (Greek present tense) and those who are being sanctified (Greek present tense) are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren.

Hebrews 10
14 By one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

So, in the case of our sanctification, both are actually true as you can see (which I just noticed you appear to believe as well, since you started out your reply to me by saying, "to some degree we have already been sanctified, no?").

That's it for now, however, I do have a couple of other things that I'd like to reply to from you other posts, so I'll be back (Dv) :)

God bless you!

~Deut
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
we ARE sanctified & we are BEING sanctified
I think so
I also think it is the Holy Spirit's job to help reduce sins in the life of Believers
Again not what Jesus said. BTW it was God who gave them the authority to forgive sins so it is God forgiving sins.
are they then forgiving sins? or teaching people their sins are already forgiven??
 
Last edited:

American Gothic

Well-known member
Answer the question.
is this before Pentacost? or after?
I can look, but I'm distracted and being a bit lazy...

could that be significant???
because Peter will be told he is no longer under Rabbinic authority...(and I assume Levitical priestly authority)
this would apply to all the early Believers (who are all Jewish)...
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
is this before Pentacost? or after?
I can look, but I'm distracted and being a bit lazy...

could that be significant???
because Peter will be told he is no longer under Rabbinic authority...(and I assume Levitical priestly authority)
this would apply to all the early Believers (who ae all Jewish)
Lmbo. I understand why you won't answer. I just wish you people had the nerve to admit it. What we know is Jesus gave the apostles the authority to forgive sins. He either did it because it's necessary or he did it just to put on a show. You're apparently of the opinion that Jesus is a showman. You could at least admit it.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
What we know is Jesus gave the apostles the authority to forgive sins.
I'm not trying to not answer, I'm assuming here you are correct
so what is the purpose then of that...? being given that authority (maybe for a limited time)

when sinning, a Jew would have had to deal with the Priests
(some of) who just had the Messiah killed... (edit)
the earliest Jewish believers are not going to be going to them anymore (my view is Mosaic law ends with death of Messiah)
and maybe the Holy Spirit has not been given yet...(?)
you have raised these questions in my mind
 
Last edited:

Yakuda

Well-known member
I'm not trying to not answer, I'm assuming here you are correct
so what is the purpose then of that...? being given that authority (maybe for a limited time)

when sinning, a Jew would have had to deal with the Priests
(some of) who just killed the Messiah...
the earliest Jewish believers are not going to be going to them anymore
and maybe the Holy Spirit has not been given yet...(?)
When sinning a Christian has to deal with a priest. That's how ongoing sin is forgiven
 

Arch Stanton

Well-known member
Jacob specified which tribe the priests would come from for a while Genesis 49

under the Mosaic law
only the descendants of Aaron were priests, and after a certain time only those descendants of Zadok as well were
the other Levites were not priests

none of that has anything to do with those now in Messiah Jesus
so you are like those in Jude and won't heed the warning.... 🤔
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
the sins issue between God and mankind was dealt with by God almost 2000 years ago on our behalf
I think He would like to be able to move on from all this, and most likely already has for the most part

but certain people keep making them an issue - either for themselves or for others
get over it already, God has


"To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:
Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you." Jude
 
Last edited:
Top