Forgotten Trinity: Jehovah was now to be known to them by the new Name.

“The Forgotten Trinity” by James White on page 174…

He could not have been understood otherwise than as substituting for the Name of Jehovah this other Name "of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"; and this could not possibly have meant to His disciples anything else than that Jehovah was now to be known to them by the new Name, of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost.


Whereas the Bible says...

Exodus 3:15 KJV... And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Exodus 3:15 NLT... God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: Yahweh, the God of your ancestors—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you. This is my eternal name, my name to remember for all generations.

Exodus 3:15 ASV... And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name forever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

The Hebrew Tetragrammaton YHWH is translated in English Bibles as the LORD (all caps), Yahweh, Jehovah, or GOD (all caps).


TRINITARIANS, two questions...

1.) Does "IN THE NAME OF the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" mean (A) "IN THE POWER OF the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" or (B) "IN THE PROPER NAME the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"?

I say A.

2.) Is God's eternal name forever (A) "YHWH / the LORD / Yahweh / Jehovah / GOD" or (B) "The Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"?

I say A.


Here is how I describe the distinctions between the Father, the Son, the Spirit, and GOD...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD

English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

is spirit
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

GOD is also in the universe as spirit
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
 
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“The Forgotten Trinity” by James White on page 174…

He could not have been understood otherwise than as substituting for the Name of Jehovah this other Name "of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost";

@johnny guitar I used to think you were the only one who believed that.

But it seems that may be a popular TRINITARIAN view after all.

I will be curious to see if your fellow Trinitarians on this forum agree you and James White on this.

But don't forget to answer the two questions in the OP. :)
 
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johnny guitar

Active member
Jeh
@johnny guitar I used to think you were the only one who believed that.

But it seems that may be a popular TRINITARIAN view after all.

I will be curious to see if your fellow Trinitarians on this forum agree you and James White on this.

But don't forget to answer the two questions in the OP. :)
Jehovah was the name by which God was know in Israel in O.T. times.
In the N.T. and The Church His name is now Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
Simple as that.
 

OldShepherd

Active member
@johnny guitar @Yahchristian
When Jesus said "baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit." He was not saying that Yahweh's name had changed, He was saying they should baptize in the "'authority of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit."
1 Samuel 17:45

45 Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied.


Acts 4:7

7 And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this?

Note David's name did not change to Yahweh when He came in the power of YHWH.
Note Acts 4:7 "in the name of" means "in the power of."
 
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Jehovah was the name by which God was know in Israel in O.T. times.
In the N.T. and The Church His name is now Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
Simple as that.

If it is so simple... why didn't you answer the questions. :)

I did NOT ask "What was God's name in Israel times?" or "What is God's name in the Church?"

I did not even mention Israel or the Church. I mentioned the specific Bible words "eternal name forever".

But since you mentioned Israel and the Church, it is possible that your are a Dispensationalist.

So I will split my second question into two for the most clarity.

Are you able to answer these three questions now...


1.) Does "IN THE NAME OF the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" mean (A) "IN THE POWER OF the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" or (B) "IN THE PROPER NAME the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"?

I say A.

2.) FOR THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL, is God's eternal name forever (A) "YHWH / the LORD / Yahweh / Jehovah / GOD" or (B) "The Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"?

I say A.

3.) FOR THE CHURCH, is God's eternal name forever (A) "YHWH / the LORD / Yahweh / Jehovah / GOD" or (B) "The Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"?

I say A.


Exodus 3:15 KJV... And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Exodus 3:15 NLT... God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: Yahweh, the God of your ancestors—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you. This is my eternal name, my name to remember for all generations.

Exodus 3:15 ASV... And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name forever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

The Hebrew tetragrammaton YHWH is translated in English Bibles as the LORD (all caps), Yahweh, Jehovah, or GOD (all caps).
 
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johnny guitar

Active member
If it is so simple... why didn't you answer the questions. :)

I did NOT ask "What was God's name in Israel times?" or "What is God's name in the Church?"

I did not even mention Israel or the Church. I mentioned the specific Bible words "eternal name forever".

But since you mentioned Israel and the Church, it is possible that your are a Dispensationalist.

So I will split my second question into two for the most clarity.

Are you able to answer these three questions now...


1.) Does "IN THE NAME OF the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" mean (A) "IN THE POWER OF the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" or (B) "IN THE PROPER NAME the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"?

I say A.

2.) FOR THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL, is God's eternal name forever (A) "YHWH / the LORD / Yahweh / Jehovah / GOD" or (B) "The Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"?

I say A.

3.) FOR THE CHURCH, is God's eternal name forever (A) "YHWH / the LORD / Yahweh / Jehovah / GOD" or (B) "The Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"?

I say A.


Exodus 3:15 KJV... And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Exodus 3:15 NLT... God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: Yahweh, the God of your ancestors—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you. This is my eternal name, my name to remember for all generations.

Exodus 3:15 ASV... And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name forever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

The Hebrew tetragrammaton YHWH is translated in English Bibles as the LORD (all caps), Yahweh, Jehovah, or GOD (all caps).
ONLY ONE name of God in The N.T. and The Church: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
 
ONLY ONE name of God in The N.T. and The Church: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

So... I guess we can assume that you are UNABLE to answer the questions...


1.) Does "IN THE NAME OF the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" mean (A) "IN THE POWER OF the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" or (B) "IN THE PROPER NAME the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"?

I say A.

2.) FOR THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL, is God's eternal name forever (A) "YHWH / the LORD / Yahweh / Jehovah / GOD" or (B) "The Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"?

I say A.

3.) FOR THE CHURCH, is God's eternal name forever (A) "YHWH / the LORD / Yahweh / Jehovah / GOD" or (B) "The Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"?

I say A.


Exodus 3:15 KJV... And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Exodus 3:15 NLT... God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: Yahweh, the God of your ancestors—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you. This is my eternal name, my name to remember for all generations.

Exodus 3:15 ASV... And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name forever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

The Hebrew tetragrammaton YHWH is translated in English Bibles as the LORD (all caps), Yahweh, Jehovah, or GOD (all caps).
 
2) A
3)B
Next question...............…

Thank you for answering the second and third questions.

You only overlooked the first question...


1.) Does "IN THE NAME OF the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" mean (A) "IN THE POWER OF the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" or (B) "IN THE PROPER NAME the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"?

I say A.


Please post your answer to that question too if you are able.
 

johnny guitar

Active member
Thank you for answering the second and third questions.

You only overlooked the first question...


1.) Does "IN THE NAME OF the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" mean (A) "IN THE POWER OF the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" or (B) "IN THE PROPER NAME the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"?

I say A.


Please post your answer to that question too if you are able.
It means in the name of Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
 
It means in the name of Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

If you happen to be a Dispensationalist and believe in a Pre-trib Rapture...

What will God's ONE Name be during the Tribulation?

I ask because Dispensationalists believe God deals with Israel and the Church in different ways.
 

johnny guitar

Active member
If you happen to be a Dispensationalist and believe in a Pre-trib Rapture...

What will God's ONE Name be during the Tribulation?

I ask because Dispensationalists believe God deals with Israel and the Church in different ways.
In Revelation the titles Lord and God usually appear, perhaps because God is dealing with Israel once more.
 
In Revelation the titles Lord and God usually appear, perhaps because God is dealing with Israel once more.

So just to be clear...

You believe that during the seven year Tribulation, the ONE name of God will revert back to Yahweh.

And then for eternity, the ONE name of God for Israelites will be Yahweh...

But the ONE name of God for those saved during the Church Age will be "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost".

I think that is what you are saying.

Can you please confirm that.
 
1.) Does "IN THE NAME OF the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" mean (A) "IN THE POWER OF the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" or (B) "IN THE PROPER NAME the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"?

I say A.

2.) Is God's eternal name forever (A) "YHWH / the LORD / Yahweh / Jehovah / GOD" or (B) "The Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"?

I say A.
1. I would say A, but I would probably keep to the original language of the verse. So "in the name of".

2. Most likely A, but I would also add a 3rd option, Jesus.
 

OldShepherd

Active member
1. I would say A, but I would probably keep to the original language of the verse. So "in the name of".

2. Most likely A, but I would also add a 3rd option, Jesus.
See my previous post #4, above.
 
@johnny guitar @Yahchristian
When Jesus said "baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit." He was not saying that Yahweh's name had changed, He was saying they should baptize in the "'authority of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit."
1 Samuel 17:45

45 Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied.


Acts 4:7

7 And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this?

Note David's name did not change to Yahweh when He came in the power of YHWH.
Note Acts 4:7 "in the name of" means "in the power of."
Hi. I believe Matthew 28:19 is referring to a literal name. It can also mean authority like you said. But, it seems the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is Jesus, according to how baptism was done in Acts.

Also, your reference to Acts 4:7 proves that point. Look at verse 10...

Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

Let me know your thoughts.
 
Hi. I believe Matthew 28:19 is referring to a literal name. It can also mean authority like you said. But, it seems the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is Jesus, according to how baptism was done in Acts.

I think baptism was done in Acts more often in the name of "Yahweh" than in "Jesus". At least in the Hebrew speaking areas.

The phrase "the Lord" in the English New Testament is often used for kyrios in the Greek.

But kyrios in the Greek is often used for YHWH in Hebrew. For example...

Mark 12:29... And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; kyrios our God is one kyrios:

We know that Jesus was quoting scripture where kyrios was used for Yahweh.

So it is very possible in my opinion that these verses mean...

Acts 8:16... (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of Yahweh Jesus.)

Acts 10:48... And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Yahweh. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 19:5... When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of Yahweh Jesus.

*Hebrew speakers would have said Yeshua rather than Jesus.
 
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