Forgotten Trinity: We are talking about one what and three who's.

“The Forgotten Trinity” by James White on page 27…

Hank Hanegraaff, president of the Christian Research Institute (CRI), has often expressed this point in a wonderfully simple and clear way: when speaking of the Trinity, we need to realize that we are talking about one what and three who's. The one what is the Being or essence of God; the three who's are the Father, Son, and Spirit. We dare not mix up the what's and who's regarding the Trinity.

If YOU believe God is three who's...

Which who does "the LORD" refer to in this verse...
Psalm 18:31 NKJV… For who is God, except
the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

1) Trinitarian who #1, the Father
2) Trinitarian who #2, the Son
3) Trinitarian who #3, the Spirit
4) other, please explain

P.S.

Psalm 18:31 says Yahweh (the LORD/GOD) is the only one who is God.
In other words, if the question is… Who is God?
The answer is… Yahweh (the LORD/GOD)

Here is how I describe the distinctions between the Father, Son, Spirit, and GOD...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD

English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

is spirit
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

GOD is also in the universe as spirit
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
 
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If YOU believe God is three who's...

Which who does "the LORD" refer to in this verse...
Psalm 18:31 NKJV… For who is God, except
the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

1) Trinitarian who #1, the Father
2) Trinitarian who #2, the Son
3) Trinitarian who #3, the Spirit
4) other, please explain

I will make a guess at how James White would answer the question.

On page 132 of "The Forgotten Trinity", James White says...

To bow the knee to the Son, Jesus, is to bow to Yahweh. To do so is in no way to slight the Father, who, like the Son, shares the one divine name,
Yahweh
.

So I will guess James White would answer the question...
4) The three who share the name Yahweh

So Psalm 18:31 NKJV would mean...
For who is God, except the three who share the name Yahweh? And who is a rock, except our God?

How about the Trinitarians on this forum...

Which who does "the LORD" refer to in this verse...
Psalm 18:31 NKJV… For who is God, except
the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

1) Trinitarian who #1, the Father
2) Trinitarian who #2, the Son
3) Trinitarian who #3, the Spirit
4) other, please explain

My answer is 4) Yahweh (the LORD/GOD)
I think most would agree that is the plain meaning of the verse.
 
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“The Forgotten Trinity” by James White on page 27…

Hank Hanegraaff, president of the Christian Research Institute (CRI), has often expressed this point in a wonderfully simple and clear way: when speaking of the Trinity, we need to realize that we are talking about one what and three who's. The one what is the Being or essence of God; the three who's are the Father, Son, and Spirit. We dare not mix up the what's and who's regarding the Trinity.

If YOU believe God is three who's...

Which who does "the LORD" refer to in this verse...
Psalm 18:31 NKJV… For who is God, except
the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

1) Trinitarian who #1, the Father
2) Trinitarian who #2, the Son
3) Trinitarian who #3, the Spirit
4) other, please explain

Category error. The question "who is God" is asking which God is real. Is it Baal, Ra, or Zeus? The Psalmist answers it's YHWH. Nothing in this verse implies that the Psalmist is bringing up or denying the Trinity. Maybe, you should stop bringing up verses that are not relevant to the conversation. How about explaining Genesis 19:24 in the context of Genesis 18-19 outside of a Trinitarian framework? How about dealing with John 12:41? Instead of looking for ways to twist irrelevant passages as to reject Trinitarianism, why don't you considered the reality that the Trinity is the solution to the complexities of Scripture, not an error.

God Bless
 
Category error. The question "who is God" is asking which God is real. Is it Baal, Ra, or Zeus? The Psalmist answers it's YHWH. Nothing in this verse implies that the Psalmist is bringing up or denying the Trinity. Maybe, you should stop bringing up verses that are not relevant to the conversation. How about explaining Genesis 19:24 in the context of Genesis 18-19 outside of a Trinitarian framework? How about dealing with John 12:41? Instead of looking for ways to twist irrelevant passages as to reject Trinitarianism, why don't you considered the reality that the Trinity is the solution to the complexities of Scripture, not an error.

God Bless

Trinitarians say God is one what, three who’s. And...

Psalm 18:31 asks WHO is God, not WHAT is God.

Psalm 18:31 NKJV… For who is God, except the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

So what is your answer...

WHO does the name “the LORD” refer to in that verse?

1) Trinitarian who #1, the Father
2) Trinitarian who #2, the Son
3) Trinitarian who #3, the Spirit
4) Trinitarian what of God
5) Yahweh (the LORD/GOD)
6) other, please explain

I say 5.
 
Trinitarians say God is one what, three who’s. And...

Psalm 18:31 asks WHO is God, not WHAT is God.

Psalm 18:31 NKJV… For who is God, except the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

So what is your answer...

So in response, you double down on misunderstanding the verse in question. Is the verse talking about the who's of God? Nope. Therefore, it is not relevant in the least to this conversation. Again, The question "who is God" is asking which God is real. Is it Baal, Ra, or Zeus? The Psalmist answers it's YHWH. Nothing in this verse implies that the Psalmist is bringing up or denying the Trinity.

WHO does the name “the LORD” refer to in that verse?

1) Trinitarian who #1, the Father
2) Trinitarian who #2, the Son
3) Trinitarian who #3, the Spirit
4) Trinitarian what of God
5) Yahweh (the LORD/GOD)
6) other, please explain

I say 5.

Even with the use of who, it's not referring to who's of the Trinity. Therefore, it's not relevant at all. The analogy presented in the Forgotten Trinity is just that an analogy. It not describing or limiting the uses of the pronoun who in Scripture. Why are you literally wasting everyone's time with this? BTW, there is no distinction between 4 and 5, and a personal what is still referred to using the singular who in English even though people use who in a different way to make an analogy about the Trinity.

God Bless
 
The question "who is God" is asking which God is real. Is it Baal, Ra, or Zeus? The Psalmist answers it's YHWH.

Right.

Baal is a "who", Ra is a "who", Zeus is a "who", the Psalmist and I say YHWH is a "who", and Trinitarians say God is "three who's".

So the Psalmist is asking...
WHICH who is God?

A) Baal
B) Ra
C) Zeus
D) YHWH (the LORD/GOD)
E) Trinitarian "who" #1
F) Trinitarian "who" #2
G) Trinitarian "who" #3
Etc.

I say D, YHWH (the LORD/GOD)
Please post your answer.


If you are unwilling to answer that question, then are you willing to answer it this way...

Trinitarians say God is one what, three who's, and each shares the name Yahweh. In other words, based on the context of the passage, "God" or "the LORD" refers specifically to one of the following...
A) The one "what" of God
B) The first "who" of God
C) The second "who" of God
D) The third "who" of God
Etc.

Please specify the specific referent of the name "the LORD" in this verse...
Psalm 18:31 NKJV… For who is God, except the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

A) The one "what" of God
B) The first "who" of God
C) The second "who" of God
D) The third "who" of God
E) other, please explain
 

OldShepherd

Active member
Right.
Baal is a "who", Ra is a "who", Zeus is a "who", the Psalmist and I say YHWH is a "who", and Trinitarians say God is "three who's".

So the Psalmist is asking...
WHICH who is God?

A) Baal
B) Ra
C) Zeus
D) YHWH (the LORD/GOD)
E) Trinitarian "who" #1
F) Trinitarian "who" #2
G) Trinitarian "who" #3
Etc.
I say D, YHWH (the LORD/GOD)
Please post your answer.

If you are unwilling to answer that question, then are you willing to answer it this way...
Trinitarians say God is one what, three who's, and each shares the name Yahweh. In other words, based on the context of the passage, "God" or "the LORD" refers specifically to one of the following...
A) The one "what" of God
B) The first "who" of God
C) The second "who" of God
D) The third "who" of God
Etc.

Please specify the specific referent of the name "the LORD" in this verse...
Psalm 18:31 NKJV… For who is God, except the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

A) The one "what" of God
B) The first "who" of God
C) The second "who" of God
D) The third "who" of God
E) other, please explain
Endlessly repeating the same illogical, irrelevant questions will not make them logical or relevant.
 

OldShepherd

Active member
@Yahchristian
After I posted above this thought occurred to me. I am a son, father, grandfather, brother, cousin, uncle, teacher, friend etc. When someone speaks to me who are they speaking to?
 
Right.

Baal is a "who", Ra is a "who", Zeus is a "who", the Psalmist and I say YHWH is a "who", and Trinitarians say God is "three who's".

And? Oh yeah, you think there is some contradiction here. Sorry, who can refer to a person or the being owned by a person. No problem here.

So the Psalmist is asking...
WHICH who is God?
A) Baal
B) Ra
C) Zeus
D) YHWH (the LORD/GOD)
E) Trinitarian "who" #1
F) Trinitarian "who" #2
G) Trinitarian "who" #3
Etc.

I say D, YHWH (the LORD/GOD)
Please post your answer.

I find the question insulting. If you think I'm that stupid, then I think you don't deserve an answer.

God Bless
 
After I posted above this thought occurred to me. I am a son, father, grandfather, brother, cousin, uncle, teacher, friend etc. When someone speaks to me who are they speaking to?

There is ONLY ONE "who" is you. That is who they are speaking to.

Can you clarify what you believe since you asked that question...

How many "who's" are YOU?

I say one.
 
Endlessly repeating the same illogical, irrelevant questions will not make them logical or relevant.

I will make the question simpler for you...

Does "the LORD" in Psalm 18:32 refer to the second Person of the Trinity?

Psalm 18:31 NKJV… For who is God, except the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

I say No. "The LORD" refers to the ONE eternal "Person".
 
Some people figure out such things on their own.

God Bless

I will take that to mean you DO NOT KNOW the answer.

Is there ANY Trinitarian on here who CAN answer the question.


In this verse...

Psalm 18:31 NKJV… For who is God, except the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

Does "the LORD" refer to "a Person" or to a "Being owned by a Person"?


I say "the LORD" refers to "a Person" (a "Who").
 
I will take that to mean you DO NOT KNOW the answer.

Is there ANY Trinitarian on here who CAN answer the question.


In this verse...

Psalm 18:31 NKJV… For who is God, except the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

Does "the LORD" refer to "a Person" or to a "Being owned by a Person"?


I say "the LORD" refers to "a Person" (a "Who").

So, you would rather insult my intelligence than answer a painfully simple question for yourself. "the LORD" is the divine name YHWH. It refers to God as a whole. Each person who is God is YHWH.

God Bless
 
So, you would rather insult my intelligence than answer a painfully simple question for yourself. "the LORD" is the divine name YHWH. It refers to God as a whole. Each person who is God is YHWH.

God Bless

So my question has been...

Does the name "the LORD" (YHWH) in Psalm 18:31 refer to...
A) God as a whole
B) the first Person who is God
C) the second Person who is God
D) the third Person who is God
E) all of the above

Psalm 18:31 NKJV… For who is God, except the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

If you say E, did "the LORD" in Psalm 18:31 manifest in the flesh as Jesus?
 

johnny guitar

Active member
I will take that to mean you DO NOT KNOW the answer.

Is there ANY Trinitarian on here who CAN answer the question.


In this verse...

Psalm 18:31 NKJV… For who is God, except the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

Does "the LORD" refer to "a Person" or to a "Being owned by a Person"?


I say "the LORD" refers to "a Person" (a "Who").
A BEING.
 
So my question has been...

Does the name "the LORD" (YHWH) in Psalm 18:31 refer to...
A) God as a whole
B) the first Person who is God
C) the second Person who is God
D) the third Person who is God
E) all of the above

Psalm 18:31 NKJV… For who is God, except the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

If you say E, did "the LORD" in Psalm 18:31 manifest in the flesh as Jesus?

Trick question. 1 Timothy 3:16 states: "Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory." This he is Jesus, the Son. The Father was not manifest in the flesh. Maybe you shouldn't twist Scripture as shoehorn your dogma into it.

God Bless
 
Trick question. 1 Timothy 3:16 states: "Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory." This he is Jesus, the Son. The Father was not manifest in the flesh. Maybe you shouldn't twist Scripture as shoehorn your dogma into it.

God Bless
To be fair, the verse you used does not say that Jesus or the Son was manifest in the flesh. The referent of "He" in verse 16 is found in verse 15, "
The Living God". So I would say The Living God was manifest in the flesh, or The Word was made flesh.
 
Trick question. 1 Timothy 3:16 states: "Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory." This he is Jesus, the Son. The Father was not manifest in the flesh. Maybe you shouldn't twist Scripture as shoehorn your dogma into it.


Is the referent of the term "the LORD" in Psalm 18:31 the same as the referent of the term "the living God" in 1 Timothy 3:15?

I say Yes.

Psalm 18:31 ESV... For who is God, but the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

1 Timothy 3:15-16 ESV... If I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth. Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
 
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