Forgotten Trinity: Yahweh himself.

“The Forgotten Trinity” by James White on…

page 43... The very fact that God is unchangingly faithful to His promises to Israel is based upon the understanding that Yahweh himself does not change with time:

page 76... To the person whose ear is attuned to the words of the Old Testament, this is a phrase that would bring to mind none other than Yahweh himself:

page 100... Lest one should find it hard to believe that John would identify the carpenter from Galilee as Yahweh himself...

page 148... But it is just as true that the Scriptures are "God-breathed" and are the very speaking of Yahweh himself (2 Timothy 3:16).

page 132... Each of these three persons share the one divine name, Yahweh or Jehovah.

Whereas the Bible says...

Joshua 22:23... hat we have built us an altar to turn from following the LORD, or if to offer thereon burnt offering or meat offering, or if to offer peace offerings thereon, let Yahweh himself require it;

I am aware that James White says the name Yahweh has more than one referent.

But my question concerns appending "himself" to the name Yahweh.


TRINITARIANS, does the phrase "Yahweh himself" have more than one referent?

I say No.


Here is how I describe the distinctions between the Father, the Son, the Spirit, and GOD...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD

English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

is spirit
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

GOD is also in the universe as spirit
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
 

johnny guitar

Active member
“The Forgotten Trinity” by James White on…

page 43... The very fact that God is unchangingly faithful to His promises to Israel is based upon the understanding that Yahweh himself does not change with time:

page 76... To the person whose ear is attuned to the words of the Old Testament, this is a phrase that would bring to mind none other than Yahweh himself:

page 100... Lest one should find it hard to believe that John would identify the carpenter from Galilee as Yahweh himself...

page 148... But it is just as true that the Scriptures are "God-breathed" and are the very speaking of Yahweh himself (2 Timothy 3:16).

page 132... Each of these three persons share the one divine name, Yahweh or Jehovah.

Whereas the Bible says...

Joshua 22:23... hat we have built us an altar to turn from following the LORD, or if to offer thereon burnt offering or meat offering, or if to offer peace offerings thereon, let Yahweh himself require it;

I am aware that James White says the name Yahweh has more than one referent.

But my question concerns appending "himself" to the name Yahweh.


TRINITARIANS, does the phrase "Yahweh himself" have more than one referent?

I say No.


Here is how I describe the distinctions between the Father, the Son, the Spirit, and GOD...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD

English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

is spirit
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

GOD is also in the universe as spirit
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Yahweh Himself is ONE referent known in the N.T. by the name of The Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
 
Yahweh Himself is ONE referent known in the N.T. by the name of The Father, Son, Holy Spirit.


1.) Do you agree with these two statements by James White?

page 76... To the person whose ear is attuned to the words of the Old Testament, this is a phrase that would bring to mind none other than Yahweh himself:

page 100... Lest one should find it hard to believe that John would identify the carpenter from Galilee as Yahweh himself...

I do.


2.) Does the phrase "Yahweh himself" in both of those statements have the same referent?

I say Yes.


P.S.

I ask because based on your statement above that "Yahweh Himself is ONE referent known in the N.T. by the name of The Father, Son, Holy Spirit"...

James White's second statement becomes...

page 100... Lest one should find it hard to believe that John would identify the carpenter from Galilee as the Father, Son, Holy Spirit...
 
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johnny guitar

Active member
1.) Do you agree with these two statements by James White?

page 76... To the person whose ear is attuned to the words of the Old Testament, this is a phrase that would bring to mind none other than Yahweh himself:

page 100... Lest one should find it hard to believe that John would identify the carpenter from Galilee as Yahweh himself...

I do.


2.) Does the phrase "Yahweh himself" in both of those statements have the same referent?

I say Yes.


P.S.

I ask because based on your statement above that "Yahweh Himself is ONE referent known in the N.T. by the name of The Father, Son, Holy Spirit"...

James White's second statement becomes...

page 100... Lest one should find it hard to believe that John would identify the carpenter from Galilee as the Father, Son, Holy Spirit...
John DID identify the carpenter from Galilee as YHWH Himself.
Yes I agree. Yahweh Himself in both statements refer to Yahweh.
 
False. John identified The SON(YHWH Himself)as the carpenter from Galilee.

But YOU said earlier...

Yahweh Himself is ONE referent known in the N.T. by the name of The Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

So would you like to change your answer to the OP question...

TRINITARIANS, does the phrase "Yahweh himself" have more than one referent?

To...

Yes, "Yahweh himself" has four possible referents; the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, or all three together.
 

johnny guitar

Active member
But YOU said earlier...



So would you like to change your answer to the OP question...

TRINITARIANS, does the phrase "Yahweh himself" have more than one referent?

To...

Yes, "Yahweh himself" has four possible referents; the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, or all three together.
Depends upon the context of the passage in question.
 
Depends upon the context of the passage in question.

So you are now saying that the phrase "Yahweh himself" does NOT always have the same referent.

Correct?


In other words, it "depends upon the context of the passage in question" to determine the referent of the phrase "Yahweh himself".

Whereas I believe the phrase "Yahweh himself" only has ONE possible referent.

Deuteronomy 6:4... Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
 
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johnny guitar

Active member
So you are now saying that the phrase "Yahweh himself" does NOT always have the same referent.

Correct?


In other words, it "depends upon the context of the passage in question" to determine the referent of the phrase "Yahweh himself".

Whereas I believe the phrase "Yahweh himself" only has ONE possible referent.

Deuteronomy 6:4... Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Correct. In Isaiah 9:6; Matthew1:23; John 1:2-3; 1:14,18 Yahweh Himself refers to The Son ONLY.
In other passages Yahweh Himself refers to The Father ONLY or to The Holy Spirit ONLY.
 
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