Free from what?

TibiasDad

Active member
1) Can God willingly lie? His will is free right?


Strawman! Free will is not "free" of all restraint! God cannot deny himself, so he is not free to lie! That is why it is impossible!


2) Scripture says no such thing.


Scripture demonstrates the fact of man's choice independent of God's determination throughout Gen 2.



3) So Acts 4 is the exception to the rule? How do you know that?


The point is that the description of Acts 4 is very specific to a particular event. You cannot extend the argument beyond the context without serious logical fallacies. All arguments can only be theoretical, not absolute in nature.



4) Independent of what? God's providence and sovereignty?


Not independent of God's sovereignty, rather because of God's sovereignty. God sovereignly chose to give such freedom when he chose to give the Imago Dei.


Doug
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
If I'm hard on Tom, what would an actual apologist and theologian do with him? Mince meat, that's what.
This post reveals your heart and what is behind what you do here. You just want to win an argument and you don't care what tactics you use, honest or not.
 

civic

Well-known member
After all our years here, you should know what I will say. Instead, have fun with the new guys ;)
maybe you can get him or someone else to take him through his logical errors in Timothy since he prides himself on logic and reasoning.

Here are my top 10 reasons from the text proving Jesus is still a man and our Mediator.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

1- It declares there IS One God AND One Mediator
2- This Mediator is in heaven
3- This One Mediator who is in heaven is a man
4- This was written decades post Resurrection/Ascension
5- One must deny the One God if they deny the One Mediator
6- To have one without the other cannot be found in the text
7- To argue against a present mediator who is a man is to be DISHONEST with the text
8- To do so is only for a person with a bias or agenda
9- This single text alone crumbles his theology on His present manhood and role as Mediator.
10- And last but not least it proves His bodily Resurrection and Ascension as a man. The icing on the cake

hope this helps !!! :)
 
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TibiasDad

Active member
You said the Bible does not teach that God has determined all things. Written like that? No it does not.

Thank you for acknowledging that fact; it is a rare occurrence!


Like we arrive at the doctrine of the Trinity using good and necessary inference, we use the same with divine determination.

1) The inferences of the Trinity are derived from specific propositions, such as each members of the Godhead being called God individually. We have no such evidence for meticulous determination.

2) This process takes the fight from purely Biblical grounds, aka, sola scriptura, into philosophical and logical arguments.


Doug
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Thank you for acknowledging that fact; it is a rare occurrence!




1) The inferences of the Trinity are derived from specific propositions, such as each members of the Godhead being called God individually. We have no such evidence for meticulous determination.

2) This process takes the fight from purely Biblical grounds, aka, sola scriptura, into philosophical and logical arguments.


Doug
When God turns the Kings head like a river of water, this doesn't qualify?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I am with Tom on this.

Of course you are.
Your theology is just as false as his.

He asked you many times how Lydia was a worshipper before God opened her heart,

It's been answered many times.
All it means is that she attended synagogue or other meetings.
It doesn't mean she was a believer.

I know you see his question, I wonder why you ignore it.

Because it's a waste of time responding to him (and you), since he (and you) ignores any answer we give. And then after you ignore our answer, you falsely claim that we didn't answer in the first place.

It gets old REALLY fast.

Maybe I am confused

No "maybe" about it.

because of the erratic nature of these threads over time, but I don't recall that anyone thought that opening Lydia's mind was the same as supernatural revelation.

It has to be, by definition.
Do you think God physically opened her mind, with a crowbar or something?

I had told you what the Greek word translated opened meant.

Um, have you forgotten that you don't understand the first thing about Greek?

It had nothing to do with mystical revelation.

No, the word itself doesn't imply it (eg. you can "open" a door), but the CONTEXT in this particular case suggests otherwise.
 

TibiasDad

Active member
When God turns the Kings head like a river of water, this doesn't qualify?
Again, a specific expression. It does not state that it is for all people, and it does not say that every turn of the head is by God, nor that it is a predetermanitive action.

God certainly has the right and power to intervene at any time to "turn the heads" of kings, but this doesn't mean that he does so with every decision, such as whether to eat breakfast or not, or what color shirt to wear today, for every person all the time.


Doug
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
This post reveals your heart and what is behind what you do here. You just want to win an argument and you don't care what tactics you use, honest or not.

<sigh>
You're describing yourself.
Not to mention you're only here to insult people, and make false claims about them.
 

civic

Well-known member
This post reveals your heart and what is behind what you do here. You just want to win an argument and you don't care what tactics you use, honest or not.
how can you possibly use the word " honest " when you are nothing but DISHONEST with 1 Timothy 2:5 ?

how can you deny Jesus is our Mediator and still a man and say that with honesty from the text ?

now who is using tactics to defend their dishonest position of a text ?

why are you arguing against Calvinism when your pastor is a calvinist ?

can you see the "CONTRADICTIONS " in your own life and your online presence ?

do you know what the definition is of an oxymoron ?
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Thank you for acknowledging that fact; it is a rare occurrence!




1) The inferences of the Trinity are derived from specific propositions, such as each members of the Godhead being called God individually. We have no such evidence for meticulous determination.

2) This process takes the fight from purely Biblical grounds, aka, sola scriptura, into philosophical and logical arguments.


DougI
I did not say it was a rare occurrence. I said that is what I have been told. How do you know its a rare occurrence?

2) Likewise with divine determination. There is plenty of evidence.

3) All tools to interpret scripture especially logic.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
That's not what the ambassadors of Christ beg for on His behalf. They don't beg for permission for anything. They beg for people to be reconciled to the truth and to God.
It should be noted that there would be no reason to beg them to be reconciled if there was nothing they had to do
We know all about your little begging god. Please believe in me, please!

Your verse it written to believers not unbelievers.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Strawman! Free will is not "free" of all restraint! God cannot deny himself, so he is not free to lie! That is why it is impossible!





Scripture demonstrates the fact of man's choice independent of God's determination throughout Gen 2.A






The point is that the description of Acts 4 is very specific to a particular event. You cannot extend the argument beyond the context without serious logical fallacies. All arguments can only be theoretical, not absolute in nature.






Not independent of God's sovereignty, rather because of God's sovereignty. God sovereignly chose to give such freedom when he chose to give the Imago Dei.


Doug
He has a free will but He is not free to lie? Could you define free will for me.

I disagree. You will have to show me. Please include context, audience.
Strawman! Free will is not "free" of all restraint! God cannot deny himself, so he is not free to lie! That is why it is impossible!





Scripture demonstrates the fact of man's choice independent of God's determination throughout Gen 2.






The point is that the description of Acts 4 is very specific to a particular event. You cannot extend the argument beyond the context without serious logical fallacies. All arguments can only be theoretical, not absolute in nature.






Not independent of God's sovereignty, rather because of God's sovereignty. God sovereignly chose to give such freedom when he chose to give the Imago Dei.


Doug
Its free but with restraints Kind of like our will you mean?

Scripture does? Show me dont tell me. Please include audience and context.

So Acts 4 is a rare occurrence? Can you prove that?

The Bible fails to mention giving such freedom. Your free to show me though
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I have no clue what your views are. You shuffle like a rubik's cube. Want to know what my views are? Read this book.

How can I know what your views are?
If you have no clue does that then mean you are clueless ?

You constant talk about the number of my posts but you don't know what i believe

Maybe I should have posted more

or maybe you should have read more and photoshopped less
 

Septextura

Well-known member
If you have no clue does that then mean you are clueless ?

You constant talk about the number of my posts but you don't know what i believe

Maybe I should have posted more

or maybe you should have read more and photoshopped less

6,600 posts, still stuck on milk.
 
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