Free Will Meticulously Examined… and Refuted!

Reformedguy

Well-known member
You are sounding kind of pathetic there guy

You don't know what regeneration is and all you have to offer is denial and stale guilt by association tactics based on out of context third party statements

So are you confessing free will is true for believers

Do you have any evidence there was no free will before belief

The ability to believe is presupposed in scripture

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 1:7 (KJV)
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

Romans 10:11-17 (KJV)
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and brin Tg glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

In context it is dealing with a paticular situation and its addressed to believers,

The ability to believe is presupposed by the choice meat crowd but not the Bible. There is nothing about ability in any of those verses you posted . NOTHING
 
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TomFL

Guest
In context it is dealing with a paticular situation and its addressed to believers,

The ability to believe is presupposed by the choice meat crowd but not the Bible. There is nothing about ability in any of those verses you posted . NOTHING
Again you appear pathetic



You don't know what regeneration is and all you have to offer is denial and stale guilt by association tactics based on out of context third party statements

So are you confessing free will is true for believers

Do you have any evidence there was no free will before belief

No you present none

The ability to believe is presupposed in scripture

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 1:7 (KJV)
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

Romans 10:11-17 (KJV)
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and brin Tg glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

all you are capable of doing is offer bald denial and out of context third party quotes which have no bearing at all on the issue
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Again you appear pathetic



You don't know what regeneration is and all you have to offer is denial and stale guilt by association tactics based on out of context third party statements

So are you confessing free will is true for believers

Do you have any evidence there was no free will before belief

No you present none

The ability to believe is presupposed in scripture

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 1:7 (KJV)
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

Romans 10:11-17 (KJV)
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and brin Tg glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

all you are capable of doing is offer bald denial and out of context third party quotes which have no bearing at all on the issue
The Bible does not presuppose ability. You do. You free willys have to. Not one of your out of context proof texts has anything do with ability. You see what you want to see. Time to invest in some new glasses. Choice meat provided of course
 

Sketo

Well-known member
Well in Context this is dealing with a specific situation. That won't stop the choice meat crowd though.

Also this verse is addressed to believers. Remember audience relevance? So do unbelievers have free will?

He must first prove that those verses teach mans will is “free” from God!

Those verses do not even come close to that.

He also must prove that those verses teach that the “will” is functioning by a power other than God!

Those verses do not even come close to that.

If he tries to assume, without scriptural justification, that God first creates them then “gives” them power to function free from God then he is claiming that, at that point, God is no longer in control of his own power! = at minimum this is Semi-Deism!

He makes multiple claims that can not be justified by Scripture.
 
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TomFL

Guest
The Bible does not presuppose ability. You do. You free willys have to. Not one of your out of context proof texts has anything do with ability. You see what you want to see. Time to invest in some new glasses. Choice meat provided of course
All you got is denial. You can't address what you were asked and you have no evidence in support of your view

You don't know what regeneration is so you canoit rebut my claims regardingf it

and don't even try

The ability to believe is presupposed in scripture

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 1:7 (KJV)
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

Romans 10:11-17 (KJV)
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and brin Tg glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Here is another for you

John 12:40 (ESV)
40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

Seems God had blinded them so they would not see and be converted

Hello

That is another verse you probably will not address

As was noted

all you appear capable of doing is offering bald denial and out of context third party quotes which have no bearing at all on the issue
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
All you got is denial. You can't address what you were asked and you have no evidence in support of your view

You don't know what regeneration is so you canoit rebut my claims regardingf it

and don't even try

The ability to believe is presupposed in scripture

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 1:7 (KJV)
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

Romans 10:11-17 (KJV)
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and brin Tg glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Here is another for you

John 12:40 (ESV)
40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

Seems God had blinded them so they would not see and be converted

Hello

That is another verse you probably will not address

As was noted

all you appear capable of doing is offering bald denial and out of context third party quotes which have no bearing at all on the issue
I do deny the crap your peddling, guilty as charged.

He blinded their eyes so they would not believe? So their will was not free then?
 
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TomFL

Guest
I do deny the crap your peddling, guilty as charged.

He blinded their eyes so they would not believe? So their will was not free then?
You ran from the point and divert. No surprise there

Why would God blind those who cannot see ?

God is not irrational

You obviously are not able to harmonize your theology with scripture
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
You ran from the point and divert. No surprise there

Why would God blind those who cannot see ?

God is not irrational

You obviously are not able to harmonize your theology with scripture
And given your theology the verse makes no sense. Does it mean their will is no longer free to believe? Why would God send His Son to die for those He deliberately blinds?
 
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TomFL

Guest
And given your theology the verse makes no sense. Does it mean their will is no longer free to believe? Why would God send His Son to die for those He deliberately blinds?
You are still diverting

Why would God blind someone who cannot see

It makes no sense

neither does your theology which is why you divert
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
You are still diverting

Why would God blind someone who cannot see

It makes no sense

neither does your theology which is why you divert
If this is the case then it makes no sense in yours either. I would say God blinded their hearts by preaching the gospel to them which they had already had chose to reject. The reason they would could not believe is because would not believe,
 
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TomFL

Guest
If this is the case then it makes no sense in yours either. I would say God blinded their hearts by preaching the gospel to them which they had already had chose to reject. The reason they would could not believe is because would not believe,
That argument makes no sense and ignores what the verse itself states

John 12:40 (ESV)
40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

Had he not blinded them they could have believed

So

Why would God blind someone who cannot see

It makes no sense

and it appears you have no answer
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
That argument makes no sense and ignores what the verse itself states

John 12:40 (ESV)
40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

Had he not blinded them they could have believed

So

Why would God blind someone who cannot see

It makes no sense

and it appears you have no answer
It does not say if He had not hardened them they could have believed. That is you presuming again. A prophecy fulllfilled of Isa. 6 9 and 10. Its very similar to God hardening Pharoahs heart yet it says Pharoahs hardened his heart

So I offered my explanation. Your turn. Did they lose their ability to chose believe? Why would God do that to those He sent His Son to die for?
 
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TomFL

Guest
It does not say if He had not hardened them they could have believed. That is you presuming again.

So I offered my explanation. Your turn. Did they lose their ability to chose to believe? Why would God do that to those He sent His Son to die for?
Better read the verse

John 12:40 (ESV)
40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

and not offer an obviously false denial

God was obviously preventing something

Why would he act to prevent something which was not possible in your theology
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Better read the verse

John 12:40 (ESV)
40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

and not offer an obviously false denial

God was obviously preventing something

Why would he act to prevent something which was not possible in your theology
I offered a explanation and I have read the verse

Preventing what? Them from getting saved? Those He sent His Son to redeem? Those whose sins have been atoned for? So why Mr. provisionalist would He take away His provision?
 
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TomFL

Guest
I offered a explanation and I have read the verse

Preventing what? Them from getting saved? Those He sent His Son to redeem? Those whose sins have been atoned for? So why Mr. provisionalist would He take away His provision?

If you read the verse you did not understand it

John 12:40 (ESV)
40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, Lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

what does the highlighted cause mean ?

The word lest ?

lest
[lest]

CONJUNCTION
formal
  1. with the intention of preventing (something undesirable); to avoid the risk of.
    "he spent whole days in his room, headphones on lest he disturb anyone"
    • (after a clause indicating fear) because of the possibility of something undesirable happening; in case.

stop diverting and deal with the verse

Why would God blind those who could not see because they were born blind according to Calvinist theology ?
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
If you read the verse you did not understand it

John 12:40 (ESV)
40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, Lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

what does the highlighted cause mean ?

The word lest ?

lest
[lest]

CONJUNCTION
formal
  1. with the intention of preventing (something undesirable); to avoid the risk of.
    "he spent whole days in his room, headphones on lest he disturb anyone"
    • (after a clause indicating fear) because of the possibility of something undesirable happening; in case.

stop diverting and deal with the verse

Why would God blind those who could not see because they were born blind according to Calvinist theology ?
I answered. See previous post. Simply repeating yourself is amateurish. A childish way to avoid my questions.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
I answered. See previous post. Simply repeating yourself is amateurish. A childish way to avoid my questions.
Sorry you are in denial

A bald denial is not an answer

John 12:40 (ESV)
40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, Lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

what does the highlighted cause mean ?

No answer

The word lest ?

Obviously not dealt with either

lest
[lest]

CONJUNCTION
formal
  1. with the intention of preventing (something undesirable); to avoid the risk of.
    "he spent whole days in his room, headphones on lest he disturb anyone"
    • (after a clause indicating fear) because of the possibility of something undesirable happening; in case.
stop diverting and deal with the verse


What was God preventing according to the verse

Why would God blind those who could not see because they were born blind according to Calvinist theology ?

again no answer
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Sorry you are in denial

A bald denial is not an answer

John 12:40 (ESV)
40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, Lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

what does the highlighted cause mean ?

No answer

The word lest ?

Obviously not dealt with either

lest
[lest]

CONJUNCTION
formal
  1. with the intention of preventing (something undesirable); to avoid the risk of.
    "he spent whole days in his room, headphones on lest he disturb anyone"
    • (after a clause indicating fear) because of the possibility of something undesirable happening; in case.
stop diverting and deal with the verse


What was God preventing according to the verse

Why would God blind those who could not see because they were born blind according to Calvinist theology ?

again no answer
I answered. Repeating yourself is not cutting it. You did not deal with any of my points. Typical. Go play somewhere else.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
I answered. Repeating yourself is not cutting it. You did not deal with any of my points. Typical. Go play somewhere else.
Nope just saying uh-uh does not answer the questions

John 12:40 (ESV)
40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, Lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

what does the highlighted cause mean ?

No answer

The word lest ?

Obviously not dealt with either

lest
[lest]

CONJUNCTION
formal
  1. with the intention of preventing (something undesirable); to avoid the risk of.
    "he spent whole days in his room, headphones on lest he disturb anyone"
    • (after a clause indicating fear) because of the possibility of something undesirable happening; in case.
stop diverting and deal with the verse


What was God preventing according to the verse

Why would God blind those who could not see because they were born blind according to Calvinist theology ?

again no answer
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Nope just saying uh-uh does not answer the questions

John 12:40 (ESV)
40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, Lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

what does the highlighted cause mean ?

No answer

The word lest ?

Obviously not dealt with either

lest
[lest]

CONJUNCTION
formal
  1. with the intention of preventing (something undesirable); to avoid the risk of.
    "he spent whole days in his room, headphones on lest he disturb anyone"
    • (after a clause indicating fear) because of the possibility of something undesirable happening; in case.
stop diverting and deal with the verse


What was God preventing according to the verse

Why would God blind those who could not see because they were born blind according to Calvinist theology ?

again no answer
I never said uh-uh and I answered your post. You ignored it and simply repeat the same dumb post.

You also refuse to answer my questions if your understanding is correct. God is preventing some from salvation. We are told He desires the salvation of yet prevents it. Thats some God You believe in. It's not the God of the Bible
 
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