Freemasonry and False Christian Cults with Dr. Shawn Waugh

kamaeq

New member
(snip)

I quite enjoyed this episode.
Oh wow, two hours, but fortunately it takes less than 16 minutes before we get the beginning of the errors. From 16:14 to 16:44 in the transcript:
16:14

in in masonry and the 33rd degree

16:17

is what's called the shrine so that's

16:19

why they're called the shriners

16:20

so a mason is not a shriner until he

16:23

gets to that 33rd degree

16:26

and one once he gets there he's in the

16:28

shrine so that's why i say all shriners

16:30

are masons

16:30

not all masons are shriners um

16:34

exactly uh you know one thing that i had

16:36

um in the information that i have

16:38

come up with is uh and if you go to uh

16:41

the book um fast facts on false teaching

16:44

dr ron carlson ed decker oh great it's a

First point, Mr. Waugh doesn't understand Freemasonry. The 33d degree comes from the Scottish Rite, which is not part of the Shriners and even when the Shriners required membership in the Scottish or York Rite side degrees, you only had to be a 32d degree Scottish Rite to join the Shriners... or you could simply be whatever in the York Rite that was considered the equivalent.

Then they both go all ga-ga over Ron Carlson and Ed Decker, two of the most openly proven bearers of false witness with regards to Freemasonry.

If you base your beliefs on the false teachings of false teachers (and they are such according to Scripture, John 8:44 and elsewhere), then what you have is not Christianity according to the Bible.

I was a Christian long before I was a Mason, I'm a Christian since I joined Freemasonry and I'll stay a Christian until I leave this earth.
 

Septextura

Active member
If you base your beliefs on the false teachings of false teachers (and they are such according to Scripture, John 8:44 and elsewhere), then what you have is not Christianity according to the Bible.

I'm not learned about freemasonry enough to discern which mouthpieces are legitimate. I appreciate the info.
 

kamaeq

New member
I'm not learned about freemasonry enough to discern which mouthpieces are legitimate. I appreciate the info.
No problem. I haven't posted my mass debunking of antimasons who claim to be Christian.

One thing to remember, over the last few hundred years, millions of Christians have been Masons, including pastors, teachers, theologians, etc. and have found no incompatibility of the organization with Christianity.

Yes, because Freemasonry is not a religion except in the broadest possible sense (belief in a Supreme Being and immortality of the human soul), there have been many Masons who were not Christian, including Jews, Muslims, Hindus and various pagans, since there is no requirement for belief in any specific god as the Supreme Deity and a Mason can believe they are going to Heaven, Nirvana, Valhalla or whatever their personal faith requires of them.
 

Septextura

Active member
No problem. I haven't posted my mass debunking of antimasons who claim to be Christian.

One thing to remember, over the last few hundred years, millions of Christians have been Masons, including pastors, teachers, theologians, etc. and have found no incompatibility of the organization with Christianity.

Yes, because Freemasonry is not a religion except in the broadest possible sense (belief in a Supreme Being and immortality of the human soul), there have been many Masons who were not Christian, including Jews, Muslims, Hindus and various pagans, since there is no requirement for belief in any specific god as the Supreme Deity and a Mason can believe they are going to Heaven, Nirvana, Valhalla or whatever their personal faith requires of them.

Aren't freemasons essentially from the disbanded Templars (moved to Spain, then followed by founding the Jesuits etc)?
 

kamaeq

New member
Aren't freemasons essentially from the disbanded Templars (moved to Spain, then followed by founding the Jesuits etc)?
There is some circumstantial evidence that some portion of the Templar teachings and organization rules made it into Freemasonry, not through Spain (I think you might be referring to Portugal), but through Scotland. In broad terms, both the Presbyterian Church and Freemasonry both inherited some elements similar to portions of the Templar Rule (the body of regulations that defined the Knights Templar).

Did the Templars form part of the origins of Freemasonry? Don't know and cannot be proven, but it is fairly obvious to me that at some point portions of Freemasonry were laid down by some group familiar with the Templar Rule. Given when Freemasonry became a public group in the early 1700s and the original rules laid down in England, it is entirely possible that the organization was formalized with "traditional rules" derived from the Templar Rule.
 

Septextura

Active member
There is some circumstantial evidence that some portion of the Templar teachings and organization rules made it into Freemasonry, not through Spain (I think you might be referring to Portugal), but through Scotland. In broad terms, both the Presbyterian Church and Freemasonry both inherited some elements similar to portions of the Templar Rule (the body of regulations that defined the Knights Templar).

Did the Templars form part of the origins of Freemasonry? Don't know and cannot be proven, but it is fairly obvious to me that at some point portions of Freemasonry were laid down by some group familiar with the Templar Rule. Given when Freemasonry became a public group in the early 1700s and the original rules laid down in England, it is entirely possible that the organization was formalized with "traditional rules" derived from the Templar Rule.

They ended up in both Spain (Aragon) and Portugal (Tomar), having assets there. They got a job to push back the muslims. House of Borgia (Aragon) then takes over the Papal States with 2 popes. Then the reformation begins, the Jesuits are formed from Spain as a military order.

"On the morning of the 15th of August, 1534, in the chapel of church of Saint Peter, at Montmartre, Loyola and his six companions, of whom only one was a priest, met and took upon themselves the solemn vows of their lifelong work."

Later, they were joined by Francis Borgia, a member of the House of Borgia, who was the main aide of Emperor Charles V, and other nobles.

Scottish rite degree Kadosh is from from the Jesuits (which controlled the Jacobins). Their motto ad majorem dei gloriam is used in ceremonies, temples etc. The degree acts as a successor to the Templars tradition.

Adam Weishaupt was educated at the Jesuit College of Ingolstadt.

Adam Weishaupt (1748–1830) founded the powerful secret society, the Illuminati, on 1 May 1776. He had been educated at the college

Point being a lot of these masonic societies seem to be founded/controlled/tied to Roman Catholic military orders, beginning with the Knights Templar.

Have you read Clairvaux's 72 latin rules for Templars? I'm curious if these are learned and practiced in freemasonry.
 

kamaeq

New member
They ended up in both Spain (Aragon) and Portugal (Tomar), having assets there. They got a job to push back the muslims. House of Borgia (Aragon) then takes over the Papal States with 2 popes. Then the reformation begins, the Jesuits are formed from Spain as a military order.



Scottish rite degree Kadosh is from from the Jesuits (which controlled the Jacobins). Their motto ad majorem dei gloriam is used in ceremonies, temples etc. The degree acts as a successor to the Templars tradition.

Adam Weishaupt was educated at the Jesuit College of Ingolstadt.



Point being a lot of these masonic societies seem to be founded/controlled/tied to Roman Catholic military orders, beginning with the Knights Templar.

Have you read Clairvaux's 72 latin rules for Templars? I'm curious if these are learned and practiced in freemasonry.
Originally and their seat since they were reformed as the Knights of Christ has been in Portugal. I'm not really up on the history of the Knights of Christ, although I know that one of the reasons for their formation was their assistance in the Reconquista.

Haven't heard that one on the 30th degree, although I do know it is the end of the "rebirth" of the Templars in the Scottish Rite, SJ. Or it was, I haven't actually looked at that degree in years. Remember that the Scottish Rite is only about 5% of the Freemasons in the USA.

Remember 1534 was 130 years after the fall of the Templars and the idea of the Jesuits as the direct successors of the militant orders would be an iffy connection.

Weishaupt was tossed out of Freemasonry IIRC, I'd have to look him up again. Remember there is no patent or copyright on the words "Masonry", "Mason" and "Freemasonry". There are many organizations that claim to be part of Freemasonry but are not recognized by the original Grand Lodges in England, Ireland or Scotland (all regular lodges are recognized by one of those three). Some groups calling themselves Masons have been guilty of criminal activity of various sorts. Others just don't want to play by the rules with regular Freemasonry.

Heh, I don't see the RCC supporting or controlling a group they defined as heretics. The circumstantial evidence I've seen about the Templar Freemason connection points to support of the Reformation. Reasonable for a group that felt betrayed by the RCC.

I just glanced over it, there is some philosophical items with a Bible basis that are supported by Freemasonry, but a lot of that was irrelevant (like leaving a candle burning and guard in the sleeping area or only eating meat or certain days or how to conduct religious services). There is an addendum to the original Templar Rule concerning governance that was added at a later date. I'll have to see if I can find the copy of the Rule I looked at years ago.

Sorry, shorter than this deserved, but I've lost power and had to punch up a hotspot on my cell to right the last few bits, so I'm shutting it all down now for the night.
 

Septextura

Active member
@kamaeq

You can easily research from mainstream sources the direct line between Freemasonry and Rome's military orders. Years, names, places, events. The symbolism clearly shows freemasonry is just one of Rome's tentacles. I doubt anyone is surprised when they progress high enough that the masonic "Xenu" was the Vatican all along. It's all in plain sight, it's hardly a mystery.

The relations between the ecclesiastical and military arm of Rome had few issues in the past that took some reconciling, but ultimately the one hand washes the other and they are irreversibly conjoined.
 

John t

Active member
Can you find a Bible Believing church teaching stuff like this?


Secret Masonic Handshakes, Passwords, Grips

And Signs Of Blue Lodge Masonry


Secret Masonic handshakes, passwords, grips and signs of Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft Fellow Craft and Mason Degrees of Blue Lodge Freemasonry
ENTERED APPRENTICE DEGREE

(First Degree in the Blue Lodge)
DUEGARD OF AN ENTERED APPRENTICE

Secret Masonic handshakes, passwords, grips and signs of Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft Fellow Craft and Mason Degrees of Blue Lodge Freemasonry

The Duegard of an Entered Apprentice represents the position of the hand when taking the oath of an Entered Apprentice, "my left hand supporting the Bible and my right hand resting thereon."
Secret Masonic handshakes, passwords, grips and signs of Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft Fellow Craft and Mason Degrees of Blue Lodge Freemasonry
SIGN OF AN ENTERED APPRENTICE

Secret Masonic handshakes, passwords, grips and signs of Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft Fellow Craft and Mason Degrees of Blue Lodge Freemasonry

The sign of the Entered Apprentice alludes to the penalty of the Entered Apprentice's obligation. The sign is made by drawing the right hand rapidly across the neck as shown on the left. The penalty that the sign alludes to is, "having my throat cut across, my tongue torn out by its roots, and my body buried in the rough sands of the sea at low water mark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-four hours, should I ever knowingly violate this my Entered Apprentice obligation."
Explanation of the Entered Apprentice sign: Draw the right hand rapidly across the neck as represented and drop the arm to the side. This action shows the penalty of having the throat cut and the tongue ripped out.
Secret Masonic handshakes, passwords, grips and signs of Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft Fellow Craft and Mason Degrees of Blue Lodge Freemasonry
"BOAZ"
GRIP OF AN ENTERED APPRENTICE
(HANDSHAKE)

Secret Masonic handshakes, passwords, grips and signs of Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft Fellow Craft and Mason Degrees of Blue Lodge Freemasonry

The Grip of the Entered Apprentice is made by pressing the thumb against the top of the first knuckle-joint of the fellow Mason, the fellow Mason also presses his thumb against the first Mason's knuckle. The name of this grip is "Boaz". When a candidate is imparted with this grip and its usage it is done in this manner." First the Worshipful Master says to the candidate: "I now present my right hand in token of friendship and brotherly love, and will invest you with the grip and word. As you are uninstructed, he who has hitherto answered for you, will do so at this time." The Worshipful Master of the lodge then has this exchange with the Senior Deacon, who is standing next to the candidate, who is still kneeling at the altar, after have assumed the obligation of this degree: Note: In the following discourse WM stands for Worshipful Master, and SD stands for Senior Deacon. WM: Brother Senior Deacon. SD: Worshipful Master. WM: I hele. SD: I conceal. WM: What do you conceal? SD: All the secrets of a Mason in Masonry, to which this token alludes. (At this time, the candidate is shown the grip of an Entered Apprentice) WM: What is that? SD: A grip WM. Of what? SD: Of an Entered Apprentice. WM. Has it a name? SD: It has. WM: Will you give it to me? SD: I did not so receive it, neither will I so impart it. WM: How will you dispose of it? SD: Letter it or halve it. WM: Letter it and begin. SD: You begin. WM: Begin you. SD: A WM: B SD: O WM: Z WM: (Directing his words to the candidate): "Boaz, my Brother, is the name of this grip, and should always be given in the customary manner, by lettering or halving. When lettering, always commence with the letter, "A".

from http://www.ephesians5-11.org/handshakes.htm
 

robycop3

Active member
Wanna see mucho intel about Freemasonry? Watch John Ankerberg's shows about it on YouTube, with testimonies from former Freemasons on most episodes.
 

kamaeq

New member
Can you find a Bible Believing church teaching stuff like this?


Secret Masonic Handshakes, Passwords, Grips


And Signs Of Blue Lodge Masonry


Secret Masonic handshakes, passwords, grips and signs of Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft Fellow Craft and Mason Degrees of Blue Lodge Freemasonry

ENTERED APPRENTICE DEGREE

(First Degree in the Blue Lodge)
DUEGARD OF AN ENTERED APPRENTICE

Secret Masonic handshakes, passwords, grips and signs of Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft Fellow Craft and Mason Degrees of Blue Lodge Freemasonry

The Duegard of an Entered Apprentice represents the position of the hand when taking the oath of an Entered Apprentice, "my left hand supporting the Bible and my right hand resting thereon."
Secret Masonic handshakes, passwords, grips and signs of Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft Fellow Craft and Mason Degrees of Blue Lodge Freemasonry

SIGN OF AN ENTERED APPRENTICE

Secret Masonic handshakes, passwords, grips and signs of Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft Fellow Craft and Mason Degrees of Blue Lodge Freemasonry

The sign of the Entered Apprentice alludes to the penalty of the Entered Apprentice's obligation. The sign is made by drawing the right hand rapidly across the neck as shown on the left. The penalty that the sign alludes to is, "having my throat cut across, my tongue torn out by its roots, and my body buried in the rough sands of the sea at low water mark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-four hours, should I ever knowingly violate this my Entered Apprentice obligation."

Explanation of the Entered Apprentice sign: Draw the right hand rapidly across the neck as represented and drop the arm to the side. This action shows the penalty of having the throat cut and the tongue ripped out.
Secret Masonic handshakes, passwords, grips and signs of Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft Fellow Craft and Mason Degrees of Blue Lodge Freemasonry

"BOAZ"
GRIP OF AN ENTERED APPRENTICE
(HANDSHAKE)

Secret Masonic handshakes, passwords, grips and signs of Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft Fellow Craft and Mason Degrees of Blue Lodge Freemasonry


The Grip of the Entered Apprentice is made by pressing the thumb against the top of the first knuckle-joint of the fellow Mason, the fellow Mason also presses his thumb against the first Mason's knuckle. The name of this grip is "Boaz". When a candidate is imparted with this grip and its usage it is done in this manner." First the Worshipful Master says to the candidate: "I now present my right hand in token of friendship and brotherly love, and will invest you with the grip and word. As you are uninstructed, he who has hitherto answered for you, will do so at this time." The Worshipful Master of the lodge then has this exchange with the Senior Deacon, who is standing next to the candidate, who is still kneeling at the altar, after have assumed the obligation of this degree: Note: In the following discourse WM stands for Worshipful Master, and SD stands for Senior Deacon. WM: Brother Senior Deacon. SD: Worshipful Master. WM: I hele. SD: I conceal. WM: What do you conceal? SD: All the secrets of a Mason in Masonry, to which this token alludes. (At this time, the candidate is shown the grip of an Entered Apprentice) WM: What is that? SD: A grip WM. Of what? SD: Of an Entered Apprentice. WM. Has it a name? SD: It has. WM: Will you give it to me? SD: I did not so receive it, neither will I so impart it. WM: How will you dispose of it? SD: Letter it or halve it. WM: Letter it and begin. SD: You begin. WM: Begin you. SD: A WM: B SD: O WM: Z WM: (Directing his words to the candidate): "Boaz, my Brother, is the name of this grip, and should always be given in the customary manner, by lettering or halving. When lettering, always commence with the letter, "A".

from http://www.ephesians5-11.org/handshakes.htm

ROFLMB(ehind)O!!! Reread the first sentence in your sig, it applies against the post I'm replying to.

Before anyone tries to imagine "any Bible believing church teaching stuff like this", perhaps you could provide us with the reason why you think any "Bible believing church" should "teach stuff like this".
Perhaps you think "Bible believing" churches are fraternities or sororities? It appears so from your comment.

Big Hint: They are NOT fraternal organizations. They are not Scouting. They are not sports fan clubs. They are not drinking clubs.

Christians who read the Bible know this. Heck, followers of Churchianity who don't read the Bible probably know this also.
 
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kamaeq

New member
Wanna see mucho intel about Freemasonry? Watch John Ankerberg's shows about it on YouTube, with testimonies from former Freemasons on most episodes.
Heh, pick one you like, I'll bust it like I always do. They are full of contradictions and falsehoods.
 

kamaeq

New member
@kamaeq

You can easily research from mainstream sources the direct line between Freemasonry and Rome's military orders. Years, names, places, events. The symbolism clearly shows freemasonry is just one of Rome's tentacles. I doubt anyone is surprised when they progress high enough that the masonic "Xenu" was the Vatican all along. It's all in plain sight, it's hardly a mystery.

The relations between the ecclesiastical and military arm of Rome had few issues in the past that took some reconciling, but ultimately the one hand washes the other and they are irreversibly conjoined.
I definitely wouldn't call them "mainstream". Yes, some portions of the philosophical teachings of Freemasonry can be found in the writings of early Christians who are now "sainted" by the RCC and as I noted, some portions of the monastic Rule of the Templars (and I believe some of the other military orders) can also be inferred, but these are correlations with potential other sources than the RCC.

Not sure how you got Scientology (Xenu reference) mixed up with Freemasonry, but it depends on your sources. There are a great many "masonic writings", "masonic teachings" and "masonic degrees" that derive from irregular sources that are not part of regular Freemasonry. A Freemason who joins or visits such an irregular pseudo-masonic group can lose their membership in Freemason.

Yes, I spent over a decade researching this stuff off and on, including stuff like Ankerberg pedals, and at best you have people connecting unnumbered dots to draw their "picture", which was obvious from these sources when you do research on the background and/or catch the various dishonest tactics in use.

I just noted that in my previous reply I stated that the RCC wouldn't be using those they define as heretics and damned as their "soldiers". Yes, being a Freemason is still prohibited and an excommunication offense. That is why the KoC was started.
 

kamaeq

New member
So, the former FMs who spoke on those shows were all liars ?
I only saw one on the videos I watched. IIRC, he correctly states that a certain symbol is to be personally interpreted by each individual Mason, but then a few minutes later blatantly lies and tells what the "real meaning" is, that is, the "real meaning" that pumps the sales of the videos to the ignorant as "proof" that Freemasonry is a cult. From a grifting point of view, it is great, it makes the grifters a lot of money.

The problem being, cults are small religions or minor offshoots of a larger religion (technically very early Christianity can be considered a Jewish cult, and yes, before anyone freaks, it can be proven from Scripture and a dictionary). Freemasonry is a fraternal organization, not a religion.
 
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