It also doesn't provide the Biblical information requested. Interesting behavior for someone who is claiming to be Christian and accusing others based on the Bible, isn't it...This post is twaddle. The 'information' biased and incorrect.
It also doesn't provide the Biblical information requested. Interesting behavior for someone who is claiming to be Christian and accusing others based on the Bible, isn't it...This post is twaddle. The 'information' biased and incorrect.
What drives you to defend freemasonry when scripture clearly condemns it ? Masons remind me of all those who are trapped by the cunning wiles of Satan in that their life is dedicated to their pet cause and God becomes mere window dressing for their darkness,sadly.False.
False.
Why yes, all discussion of religion (and politics) are not allowed during the business meeting of a Lodge. There are many secular and some business related religious venues where this is true.
False, the darkness is intellectual and philosophical, not religious. Freemasonry leaves everything past belief in a Creator to the individual Mason since Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion.
How? Unless you are denying the taking of oaths by Christians, which is a false teaching. Christians are enjoined against making frivolous oaths, not all oaths, and are given the goal of being so trustworthy that their simple statements can be taken as if sworn under oath.
Yes, Freemasonry teaches that the creation has a Creator. This is a Biblical position. See Psalms 19:1-6 and Romans 1:20.
As your line shows, it is a title, not a name of any deity. As for representative, which major religion do you know of that does not teach that their deity created? Christianity teaches that since it is a Biblical position.
Common among prayers given in secular settings. I've been prayed over by clergy of different religions, in secular settings and rarely in more private ones.
Totally false. Also a duplicate point, probably trying to repeat the falsehoods in line with standard propaganda practices.
Totally false. Especially since Freemasonry teaches that if you feel that membership in Freemasonry interferes with any of your duties or obligations towards the deity you worship, then you should leave Freemasonry.
Well, I see a lot of bearing of false witness in this little list of yours and a lot of argument by outrage (see 3, 5-7 where common practices are phrased to be "sinister"). Nothing actually quoted from Scripture as a proof. Heck, I even gave that much in my reply to point 6 because it was relevant.
I thought that this was a bit polished from your previous posts. I'd have to see if I've actually shown if I've already covered the "gotquestions" stuff, but really... EMFJ? I've got at least half of their documents as of a few years ago debunked. They are not Christian and not Biblical in their teachings. EMFJ are one of the major reasons I ended up discovering the cult traits of antimasonry that claims to be Christian.
We used to have some of the EMFJ types on CARM, they ran away because they couldn't deal with the Bible. As in actually studying and defending Christianity with it. They required their own special (mis)interpretations of the Bible and speaking false witness against those they chose to attack.
But in all of your posts, you have yet to produce any Bible verses, in or out of context, nor expounded on any, simply made vague claims about basing your post on Biblical teachings. Which is a trait of a cult. On your side, not that of Freemasonry.Surely you joke. Thin skinned ? It is not those that try to get you out of the purely evil cult of freemasonry that are thin skinned it is you that has tossed the word of God, taken out of context scriptures that expose your cult, and absolutely refuse to see the truth that you are in an evil cult based on scripture.
Go for it. Provide the Scriptural proofs to support your points.Reread the 9 points they are scripturally true , and the only twaddle is you ignoring scripture to stay in an evil cult.
Because Scripture does not condemn Freemasonry in anything other than an individual basis (see Romans 14).What drives you to defend freemasonry when scripture clearly condemns it ? Masons remind me of all those who are trapped by the cunning wiles of Satan in that their life is dedicated to their pet cause and God becomes mere window dressing for their darkness,sadly.
You keep defending freemasonry when scripture clearly warns against it. You have been shown where scripture condemns Masonic rituals (evil) and secret oaths (evil) and yet you ignore the scriptures to defend Freemasonry which speaks volumes about who your god is. I am sure you are familiar with the scripture that says do not cast pearls before pigs.But in all of your posts, you have yet to produce any Bible verses, in or out of context, nor expounded on any, simply made vague claims about basing your post on Biblical teachings. Which is a trait of a cult. On your side, not that of Freemasonry.
Also, what is "an evil cult based on scripture."? I mean, I can see that being used for antimasonry that claims to be Christian, but that would mean you are leaving the teachings of the cult of antimasonry behind and I don't think you are.
Notice that the one defending Christianity against the false teachings of a cult is the Christian who happens to belong to a secular fraternity known as Freemasonry. Which is why I'm more than willing to take this to a Bible study as I've stated repeatedly over different versions of these CARM forums, but those who espouse antimasonry run away from studying the Bible while accusing all who don't slavishly follow their (false) teachings of not being "real christians".
Things that make you go HMMM.
Wrong, again!That is the poster claiming that he KNOWS what God has told me.
Again, I'll correct your error. I'm not here to defend Freemasonry, I'm here to defend Christianity against teachers of false doctrine. "Christian" antimasonry is not Biblical or Christian.
Because Scripture does not condemn Freemasonry in anything other than an individual basis (see Romans 14).
You need a verse condemning antimasonry that claims to be Christian?You have Not posted any Christian doctrines and citing the entire chapter of Romans 14 is patently bogus. In the more than 550 words in the chapter, you cannot cite ONE verse that supports your position because you have NOT cited any verse in that chapter that condemns what we believe.
A common reference for Romans 14 is the "law of doubtful things", because it provides a framework to deal with peripheral issues by Christians. It is often misquoted, but then you know that since I've shown you that error in the past.Show us in one of your posts what you previously condemned, them cite that verse. But do not forget about the importance of context,ascited in the first verses:
Romans 14:1 Now receive the one who is weak in faith, but not for quarrels about opinions. 2 One believes he may eat all things, but the one who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats must not despise the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat must not judge the one who eats, because God has accepted him. 4 Who are you, who passes judgment on the domestic slave belonging to someone else? To his own master he stands or falls, and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.5 One person prefers one day over another day, and another person regards every day alike. Each one must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who is intent on the day is intent on it for the Lord, and the one who eats eats for the Lord, because he is thankful to God, and the one who does not eat does not eat for the Lord, and he is thankful to God. 7 For none of us lives for himself and none dies for himself. 8 For if we live, we live for the Lord, and if we die, we die for the Lord. Therefore whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For Christ died and became alive again for this reason, in order that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.10 But why do you judge your brother? Or also, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. 11 For it is written,“As I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow to me,and every tongue will praise God.”12 So each one of us will give an account concerning himself.13 Therefore, let us no longer pass judgment on one another, but rather decide this: not to place a cause for stumbling or a temptation before a brother. 14 I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean of itself, except to the one who considers something to be unclean; to that person it is unclean. 15 For if because of food, your brother is grieved, you are no longer living according to love. Do not destroy by your food that person for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let your good be slandered. 17 For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For the one who serves Christ in this way is well-pleasing to God and approved by people.19 So then, let us pursue ⌞what promotes peace⌟ and ⌞what edifies one another⌟. 20 Do not destroy the work of God on account of food. All things are clean, but it is wrong for the person ⌞who eats and stumbles in the process⌟. 21 It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine or to do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is weakened. 22 The faith that you have, have with respect to yourself before God. Blessed is the one who does not pass judgment on himself by what he approves. 23 But the one who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not do so from faith, and everything that is not from faith is sin.
Looks like you want Character Counts to be restarted, because it is all about the lack of character by antimasons who claim to be Christian... well, at least lack of a Christian character...What shall your reply reveal about the content of your character?
Pray tell us all what Scripture not contradicting itself have to do with a poster claiming to be able to know what God tells others? This is the second time you have hurled this accusation in defense of what is contradicted by Scripture. Heh, and you accuse me of picking random stuff off the barn floor and hurling it at the walls.Wrong, again!
Scripture does not contradict itself.
So, where do you get that Freemasonry is a form of Gnosticism? I have no problem with the statement that some Masons follow Gnosticism in their personal religious beliefs, I've read some of their works. However, the religious beliefs of individuals, Masons or not, are their own, as Freemasonry openly states.Pay attention to the way that Jesus conducted His ministry:
John 7: 26 And behold, he is speaking openly and they are saying nothing to him! Can it be that the rulers truly know that this man is the Christ? 27 Yet we know where this man is from, but the Christ, whenever he comes—no one knows where he is from!”28 Then Jesus cried out in the temple courts, teaching and saying, “You both know me and you know where I am from! And I have not come from myself, but the one who sent me is true, whom you do not know. 29 I know him, because I am from him and he sent me.” 30 So they were seeking to seize him, and no one laid a hand on him, because his hour had not yet come. 31 But from the crowd many believed in him and were saying, “Whenever the Christ comes, he will not perform more signs than this man has done, will he?”
In other words, if the message from the works, words miracles were only for a select few, such as the Gnostics, and Masons (which is actually a form of Gnosticism) were meant for the "elite" Jesus would be either a liar or a lunatic because his open teaching is not hidden from anyone
Freemasonry is not Christianity. You keep making this mistake. Do you lack the capacity to understand the difference between secular and religious?2Peter 1: 16 For we did not make known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ by following ingeniously concocted myths, but by being eyewitnesses of that one’s majesty. 17 For he received honor and glory from God the Father when a voice such as this was brought to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18 And we ourselves heard this voice brought from heaven when we were with him on the holy mountain, 19 and we possess as more reliable the prophetic word, to which you do well if you pay attention to it as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 20 recognizing this above all, that every prophecy of scripture does not come about from one’s own interpretation,21 for no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men carried along by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.We both know the origin of the myth of Hyman Abiff, and the "secret password", Shibbileth. You guys concocted it and bastardized it from the original context of those Scriptures
Except you haven't proven anything as a "private interpretation" in respect to Christianity. This is why you are scared to openly engage in a Bible study on this subject, because I've proven repeatedly in the past that antimasons who claim to be Christian flee from Scripture. Why?Who else, in the presence of John the Baptist, his followers and the followers of Jesus ever heard those words spoken?. And now the followers of your religion are committing blasphemy against Holy Spirit when you falsely attribute "Having your own private interpretation" concerning the words of Scripture, plainly written.
What "open truth"? Whatever you claim it is, it certainly isn't Biblical and you've been shown twice to be in error on your claims so far this post, but let's see what you have for us now.Yeah, I do suppose my words sorta "annoys you off", but I would prefer to have you "annoyed off" by telling you the open truth than to "annoy off Holy Spirit" through committing blasphemy. And are you aware that it is the only one sin that is unforgivable, according Jesus Christ?
Relevance? I'm not the one caught out bearing false witness twice in this post. So, show were you think I'm blaspheming against the Holy Spirit here, besides "John t sez". The kind of logic you are using covers multiple cult traits from the CARM cult list.Matthew 12: 28 But if I expel demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you! 29 Or how can someone enter into the house of a strong man and steal his property, unless he first ties up the strong man? And then he can thoroughly plunder his house. 30 The one who is not with me is against me, and the one who does not gather with me scatters. 31 For this reason I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven! 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him either in this age or in the coming one!
You see, in one very limited sense, giving God a "last name" can, if confessed, be forgiven. But according to Jesus Christ, blasphemy against Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven while on Earth, or in Hell. But again, we are dealing with the words of Jesus Christ, and if you denigrate His words, the words of His Apostle, or the words of His Disciple, and regarding them nothing but "twaddle" upon repentance, confession to God, and godly sorrow, they can be forgiven. Blasphemy against Holy Spirit is forever, and according to the words of Jesus, totally unforgivable.
Actually, there are some, but I merely consider those to be drive-bys mostly. On that subject, you have a fatal misunderstanding between invalid and valid ad hominem or "personal attacks".BTW there is nothing in this post that can be considered a personal attack. However, if it moves you to reconsider your relationship with God, and not GAOTU (it is a non existent Masonic idol) then this post has done its work.
WHICH SCRIPTURES?!? You haven't listed any with your exposition.You keep defending freemasonry when scripture clearly warns against it. You have been shown where scripture condemns Masonic rituals (evil) and secret oaths (evil) and yet you ignore the scriptures to defend Freemasonry which speaks volumes about who your god is. I am sure you are familiar with the scripture that says do not cast pearls before pigs.
I really cannot post about what you imagine. I can post about that which I have knowledge. The answer you seek is in my post to which you responded. Perhaps you may want to call up a fellow lodge member to read it to you slowly.Pray tell us all what Scripture not contradicting itself have to do with a poster claiming to be able to know what God tells others? This is the second time you have hurled this accusation in defense of what is contradicted by Scripture. Heh, and you accuse me of picking random stuff off the barn floor and hurling it at the walls.
Accusing others of what one is guilty of, a telling trait.
So, where do you get that Freemasonry is a form of Gnosticism? I have no problem with the statement that some Masons follow Gnosticism in their personal religious beliefs, I've read some of their works. However, the religious beliefs of individuals, Masons or not, are their own, as Freemasonry openly states.
WIFF!Freemasonry is not Christianity. You keep making this mistake. Do you lack the capacity to understand the difference between secular and religious?
Freemasonry is not a religion, no matter how much you keep regurgitating this falsehood.
I have seen you ignore plenty scripture to stay in your cult. You are a strong defender for freemasonry and a lousy defender for Christ.WHICH SCRIPTURES?!? You haven't listed any with your exposition.
You haven't shown how any Masonic rituals are evil. (yes, I'm ready to correct you if you get into the forgeries and other grifts.)
You haven't shown how any Masonic obligations are evil.
You haven't shown where I ignore any Scriptures.
I didn't get into this to defend Freemasonry, it was to defend Christianity against the cult that antimasonry that claims to be Christian is.
Prime evidence of this being posts like this where vague and amorphous references to "scripture" abound with nothing concrete about them. It lets those who use this tactic engage in plausible deniability with having to stake out a position that can be refuted.
And we have the usual retreat setup, before yet another antimason who claims to be Christian cannot handle actually using the Bible and fleeing.
From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. (1Ti 1:6-7)
Really, which Scriptures? I've been begging you and your fellow travelers to post them and expound upon them to prove your case against Freemasonry. If I posted the same sentence as you did and subjected "antifreemasonry" for "freemasonry", mine would be more valid since I've at least actually cited Scripture and have not made up positions antimasons who claim to be Christian hold.I have seen you ignore plenty scripture to stay in your cult. You are a strong defender for freemasonry and a lousy defender for Christ.
Well, perhaps you could explain what the clear words of the post mean instead of trying to vaguely handwave and do some pseudo-mystical claptrap from an Asian martial arts movie.I really cannot post about what you imagine. I can post about that which I have knowledge. The answer you seek is in my post to which you responded. Perhaps you may want to call up a fellow lodge member to read it to you slowly.
I did and you ignored my reply with making vague accusations. Amusing how you claim about all these "secret words" when they can be found to be read in any library, somehow miss that fact that any such words are related to an allegorical teaching in a SECULAR setting, not a RELIGIOUS one.Go and read or have your Masonic buddy read my post to you. The post to which I refer you obviously did not read contains "secret knowledge words" that for some people kick in the stipulations of ancient blood oaths.
You are projecting. I've given replies. You might validly and honestly ask for further clarification or actually honestly address my reply, but given the history of our interactions, I doubt there will be either.WIFF!
You keep on missing the point or else attempt to obfuscate what I actually posted about. Ask your mason buddy to read that paragraph to which I replied slowly.
What ad hominems? Show them and explain why they are fallacious ad hominems.If you really want to discuss what I posted, THEN DO IT. However I do not respond to insipid ad hominems having nothing to do with freemassonry. If you do not want to discuss what I say about free masonry on this board, then go post on an another CARM forum.
Ineffectual? Amusing claim considering you are afraid to address the issues, especially your confusion about the difference between religious and secular and instead make vague and unsupported accusations as excuses to why you cannot engage logically and critically. I've only seen a Bible as a symbol of the Volume of Sacred Law in lodges. Hint, hint, the key word there is SYMBOL. Since Freemasonry is a secular fraternity, it has no religious teachings outside of those to be found in philosophy (IOW, secular) based teachings.Bottom line is that despite your ineffectual protestations, and attempts of redefinitions you have the Bible of SOME OTHER "religious book, on your ALTAR, have an official person called "worshipful..." use many religious terms or symbols having religious meanings and then have the audacity to attempt to have others believe that you are not "religious". As long as you have those religious terms and symbols, your masons are attempting to deceive others, and I will not stop exposing those tactics of the masons, which of course make the colors the perceptions of non-masons about your organization quite dark.
Well, given I just showed a whole bunch of your claims to be less than factual, if I was reading this, I'd wonder why the one claiming to speak for Jesus from the antimasonic side cannot get their facts straight and constantly duck directly replies to posts while claiming to be so righteous.Post more misinformation, and I will correct the distortions using Scripture as much as possible common sense to show the patterns of ministry that Jesus used.