Gain of Function v. Directed Evolution

CrowCross said:
They have it on film.....the guy admitted to it.

You need to join reality.
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Has it not occurred to you that the film was doctored?
After all, if this guy was criticizing his company or bragging about unethical practices, why does he still have a job there?
 
vibise said:
Has it not occurred to you that the film was doctored?
After all, if this guy was criticizing his company or bragging about unethical practices, why does he still have a job there?
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No proof , only speculation. Good enough for vibise.

Maybe he stated the company's goals.
 
vibise said:
Artificial (directed) selection was the basis for Darwin's discovery of natural selection. He noticed the many examples in which people had used selective breeding to pass beneficial characters to the next generation to improve stocks of plants and animals, and he concluded that changes in natural populations over time were caused by similar selective pressures, but from the environment.
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That is in Genesis. Breeding sheep. Thousands of years prior to Darwin and common knowledge.
vibise said:
There is clearly a need for improved methods to efficiently target a medication to a specific site in the body. This is not a crisis, and I don't know who is claiming it is. Inventions can sometimes create markets that did not previously exist if the product is useful, like cell phones, microwaves, TVs.

Directed breeding gave us things like bananas. And will continue to create new and useful things.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1618428002223927297
 
vibise said:
It is false to say that covid-19 could not have a natural origin.
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But it is possible (and quite likely) that it was created in a lab (ie. manufactured) and did NOT evolve naturally.
vibise said:
Viruses are constantly evolving, and in fact can evolve more quickly than cell-based lifeforms because the polymerases they use to replicate their genomes have a high error rate, so a large number of mutant variants are generated that can serve as substrates for natural selection. In fact, after a human is infected with HIV, the infecting virus quickly produces swarms of "quasi-species" with sequence and functional differences - in a single infected person.

What is true is that there are multiple examples of trans-species transmissions of viruses resulting in previously unseen infectious diseases in humans or other animals. In fact, covid-19 is at least the third such jump involving coronaviruses, MERS and SARS being the other two. Other examples include Ebola, HIV, Zika and swine and avian flu. This can and does happen which is why a natural origin for covid-19 is entirely possible if not probable.
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You’re not accounting for the possibility that all these viruses, including HIV, could have been created in a lab through processes like “directed evolution” and not be the result of natural evolution.
vibise said:
The rest of your post is over-the-top conspiracy theory.
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How so? I’m addressing what the Pfizer exec said. He said “Covid is a cash cow” for them. He said they’ve considered creating mutations of the virus, in order to make more vaccines for more profit. If you follow this line of reasoning to it’s logical conclusion, and understand how much power and control this ability to create killer viruses would give to companies like Pfizer, it becomes a very dangerous prospect for the world.

It seems to me that you’re just not willing to consider these possibilities. It’s easier to brush me off as a conspiracy theorist, than to question your own perception of reality. It’s a coping mechanism. I get it.
 
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vibise said:
In order to understand how a virus infects a cell and how it interacts with the host immune system, scientists take it apart to determine what sites are responsible for infectivity and pathogenicity. This commonly involves mutating specific sites in the viral genome to identify the sites critical for function. There is nothing sinister in this, but conspiracy-prone nonscientists wrongly seem to think such mutational analysis must have some evil purpose.
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If you understand the risks involved with deliberately mutating viruses just to see how deadly they “could” be… you would understand why these practices have been banned in many countries.
 
DeSanto said:
UPDATE:

Pfizer RESPONDS:​


Pfizer Responds to Research Claims | Pfizer

New York, N.Y., January 27, 2023 – Allegations have recently been made related to gain of function and directed evolution research at Pfizer and the company would like to set the record straight.
www.pfizer.com www.pfizer.com

It should be noted that this carefully worded statement does not deny that Jordon Triston Walker works for Pfizer. Nor does it deny that he is the director of scientific and operational initiatives, which is directly salient to the statements made in the video. It does not directly address the content of the video.

It does not deny the possibility that Pfizer employees may have discussed the intentional mutation of viruses to sell future vaccines. It does not rule out Pfizer subcontractors experimenting to explore such a possibility.

The Pfizer Director of Research and Development, Strategic Operations and mRNA Scientific Planner says in the video:

“One of the things we’re exploring is like, why don’t we just mutate it [COVID] ourselves so we could create — preemptively develop new vaccines, right? So, we have to do that. If we’re gonna do that though, there’s a risk of like, as you could imagine — no one wants to be having a pharma company mutating f**king viruses.”​

Pfizer’s statement did not respond directly to Project Veritas. Nor did it threaten a lawsuit, which could lead to discovery.
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When we see such a high measure of obfuscation, look for shady and dishonest dealings as a backdrop.
 
vibise said:
Has it not occurred to you that the film was doctored?
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Reflex response when corruption gets exposed and recorded on video.


vibise said:
After all, if this guy was criticizing his company or bragging about unethical practices, why does he still have a job there?
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Because Pfizer is willing to step into ethics breeches.



There is no way @vibise and Fake News will tell us about Pfizer

Has Pfizer ever been found guilty in a court of law for scientific fraud? Yes
Has Pfizer ever been found guilty of bribing doctors? Yes

Has pfizer ever been found guilty by a jury of racketeering fraud? Yes.
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vibise said:
Artificial (directed) selection was the basis for Darwin's discovery of natural selection.
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Darwin was 4th generation of inbreds!

His daughter died with birth defects.

He suffered from autism. (common intestinal disorders)


vibise said:
He noticed the many examples in which people had used selective breeding to pass beneficial characters to the next generation to improve stocks of plants and animals, and he concluded that changes in natural populations over time were caused by similar selective pressures, but from the environment.
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What is "survival of the fittest?"

The ones lucky enough to reproduce before they die, DUH!
 
I do have to say, something does seem a bit off about the guy in this video. There was another PV story a while back, I can’t remember which one, but I do recall thinking, what if these people being recorded, supposedly “without their knowledge.” actually do know they’re being recorded and are purposely floating out false narratives? For whatever reason. There could be several.

But my suspicions are really peaked now, due to the fact that more and more msm outlets are picking up PV’s videos.

This video in particular just seems too… what’s the word… easy! Like, the guy just wouldn’t nonchalantly disclose all this information so freely on a date. And if you watch the confrontation video that occurred later, it really does look a bit staged.

I’m beginning to wonder if PV was set up or maybe they sold out or have been comp’d in some way.
 
Harry Leggs said:
That is in Genesis. Breeding sheep. Thousands of years prior to Darwin and common knowledge.



https://twitter.com/x/status/1618428002223927297
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Of course humans have been breeding everything from sheep to bananas to improve the line. Darwin noticed this artificial selection and used it as the basis for his theory of natural selection which shapes natural populations, creating and preserving new variants better adapted to their environments.

And as for "gain of function" research, that is a broad term that covers a lot of territory, and any new restrictions should not ban basic research designed to learn how viruses work.

At the present time, most journals that publish papers on infectious agents require the authors to answer a battery of questions designed to determine if deliberate attempts were made to create pathogens with increased infectivity, pathogenicity or ability to evade the immune system.
 
DeSanto said:
But it is possible (and quite likely) that it was created in a lab (ie. manufactured) and did NOT evolve naturally.

You’re not accounting for the possibility that all these viruses, including HIV, could have been created in a lab through processes like “directed evolution” and not be the result of natural evolution.

How so? I’m addressing what the Pfizer exec said. He said “Covid is a cash cow” for them. He said they’ve considered creating mutations of the virus, in order to make more vaccines for more profit. If you follow this line of reasoning to it’s logical conclusion, and understand how much power and control this ability to create killer viruses would give to companies like Pfizer, it becomes a very dangerous prospect for the world.

It seems to me that you’re just not willing to consider these possibilities. It’s easier to brush me off as a conspiracy theorist, than to question your own perception of reality. It’s a coping mechanism. I get it.
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Most scientists think the most likely scenario is trans-species transmission.

HIV origins have been traced to African chimps infected with a sister virus termed SIV.

And sure, Pfizer has made lots of money from their vaccines. A statement of fact. But shouldn't companies that make and sell useful products make money?

In order to test vaccines, you have to test them against something, and if the virus is mutating naturally, it would make sense to incorporate those mutations into the constructs they use for testing purposes to design more broadly effective vaccines.

You seem to think Pfizer has some unique ability to mutate viruses, but the fact is, the techniques are pretty routine in molecular biology labs.

I have considered the possibilities:
--the most logical origin of covid-19 is transmission from the wild. there is no evidence for a lab origin.
--Project Veritas and O'Keefe have a long history of lying, so I believe nothing they put out.
 
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