Galatians 2:20: was Paul living w/christ or hung on a cross?

Sure, man. Whatever you say.

Jesus Christ believed Abel was real (Matt 23:35; Luke 11:51), the writer of Hebrews believed Abel was real (Heb 11:4).

Abel was the man Adam's son, not "a living celestial or cosmic Adam."
Some people just think they have special knowledge.
 
…according to the history and archaeological record around the beginning of this era.
nonsense. The archaeological record doesnt show that and as to the history nor does the Bible.


The Talmud began in the first century CE but was not completed until sixth century CE.
it didnt begin on the first century and it isnt the Bible.
Even your irrelevant point is in error


What is your point? A lot of history is not recorded in the Bible. Are you making the absurd claim that the only history is that documented in the Bible? The Dead Sea Scrolls are pre-christian jewish christian writings making them the original jewish-christians practicing Christian sacraments before traditional christianity started. Simply, you dont have all the evidence. Big chunks of history was suppressed and destroyed by the Roman church. Catholicism made you ignorant of the true history of Jewish-christianity. It is why the doctrines, dogmas are so messed up. The roman church falsified the christian faith originally taught by Paul.
i am making the claim the Bible is authorative and your claims have little substance.


The OP is just a small example how his letters were falsified.
and that is poor evidence
 
You have been brain-washed into myths and superstitions and lack critical thinking skills. Hopeless.
Completely off-topic and shows your inability and unwillingness to understand Christianity, which is your look-out. God is not mocked.
 
Some people just think they have special knowledge.
It is called history, archaeology and critical scholarship, things you know nothing about because you are too busy pontificating how many angels can dance on a pinhead. Religion for the masses has become fast food whipped up from stale ingredients, salted and served on the cheap. Whereas real biblical scholars, tip of the spear biblical scholars study what actually transpired in history, cultural context, linguistic context and document what they find, then discuss it among themselves. They are smart enough to not waste their time persuading people like you who are committed to serving cheap fast food to the masses. Keeping the flock ignorant of the truth. You are like the Pharisees who should be the most informed people on these subjects but instead block laypeople from finding it. Terrible.

As for me I guess I am just a glutton for punishment in the slim hope I can get through to one person. Enlighten them to the fact that there is better, original cuisine that the hungry were once fed at a five-star hotel now documented uncovered from the historical record before the roman church came along and turned it into cheap fast food for the masses.
 
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nonsense. The archaeological record doesnt show that and as to the history nor does the Bible.
You are wrong. For example,

The “enuma elish” written three thousand years ago in Assyria is the myth upon which the biblical creation myth was based.

The canaanite religion on tablets written 3,200 years ago parallels the old testament themes. The Hebrews were semites living in the levant as canaanites and influenced by the Mesopotamian civilizations (Babylonia, Assyria, Sumeria), Egypt, and the Hittites before they became their own people.

Dead Sea Scrolls written up to 200 bc by Jewish-christians practicing christianity BEFORE christianity.

Nasaroeans kept their scriptures from the prechristian time in Palestine providing valuable context to common religious themes in Paul’s time. They followed John the Baptist. Case in point—this OP.

Nag Hammadi parallels gnostic themes in Paul’s epistles before roman church came along and translated them differently to hide the gnostic tenets.

Philo writes prechristian themes that parallel the new testament stories, especially the “virgin birth” and the “Word” of God.

ALL PRE Roman church we find actual historical, existing readily available documents demonstrating how the Jewish religion, scriptures, and christianity naturally developed over thousands of years. And it refutes what the roman church passed down to us.

Remain ignorant of the historical truth if you want too but the truth is out there and readily available for those who seek it.


it didnt begin on the first century and it isnt the Bible.
Even your irrelevant point is in error


i am making the claim the Bible is authorative and your claims have little substance.


and that is poor evidence
 
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I do not need you to give me your personal interpretation of myths and superstitions. I need you to deal with actual history, aka, reality, documented in the archaeological record and discovered in the last one hundred years. Real people, natural development of jewish-christianity, documented in the archaeological record. Not your imaginary world built on historizing what is actually esoteric stories. It is obvious to critical thinking people, history loving people, willing to step outside the bubble of myth and superstition. Come back when you are in touch with reality.
So you are saying that the bible is a myth and superstition.

Therefore you are not Christian. Now I know where you are coming from.
 
It is called history, archaeology and critical scholarship, things you know nothing about because you are too busy pontificating how many angels can dance on a pinhead. Religion for the masses has become fast food whipped up from stale ingredients, salted and served on the cheap. Whereas real biblical scholars, tip of the spear biblical scholars study what actually transpired in history, cultural context, linguistic context and document what they find, then discuss it among themselves. They are smart enough to not waste their time persuading people like you who are committed to serving cheap fast food to the masses. Keeping the flock ignorant of the truth. You are like the Pharisees who should be the most informed people on these subjects but instead block laypeople from finding it. Terrible.

As for me I guess I am just a glutton for punishment in the slim hope I can get through to one person. Enlighten them to the fact that there is better, original cuisine that the hungry were once fed at a five-star hotel now documented uncovered from the historical record before the roman church came along and turned it into cheap fast food for the masses.
Oh boy! The Bible is cheap fast food to the masses! Good to know. You truly are sad. I will believe what the written word of God says any day over pseudo intellectuals.
 
So you are saying that the bible is a myth and superstition.
Much of it is and this has been demonstrated by scholars. For example, the biblical creation myth is based on the “Enuma Elish” an Assyrian creation myth written over three thousand years ago. This is not opinion only. Anyone today can go read it for themselves, study it for themselves, and verify for themselves that the biblical myth is based on myths previously written for Mesopotamian civilizations.

There are two conclusions possible. One made by atheists that the Bible is a fraud by copying myths from other civilizations, and two, the authors of the Bible were transferring the archaic wisdom forward to their own newly budding nation of semites centered in Palestine.

I take the second position as a theist. But your contention that christianity or even Judaism is a unique religion is no longer possible. Historical and archaeological evidence has totally refuted the traditional position of the Roman church (and Rabbinical Judaism). Moreover, the Dead Sea Scrolls contribute to the paradigm shift because they prove Jewish-christianity was alive and well practicing christian sacraments, calling themselves “The Way” up to 200 BC, —completely refuting the start of traditional christianity in the first century.

And I have only revealed the tip of the iceberg of historical information uncovered, analyzed, and published which refutes the claims of traditional christianity.

There is ONLY one rational path forward for christian based theists, that is, to recover the original meaning of Paul’s letters in the religious, cultural, and linguistic context of the Jewish-christian sect existing during the prechristian era. Hence, this OP.

If you do not do this then you are merely promoting a fake religion invented by the Catholic church. History will condemn you for ignoring it. And I will be a withess against you, for you have been warned.

Therefore you are not Christian. Now I know where you are coming from.
Ad-hominem does not phase me in light of the above historical knowledge. I actually feel sorry for you.
 
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You are wrong. For example,

The “enuma elish” written three thousand years ago in Assyria is the myth upon which the biblical creation myth was based.

The canaanite religion on tablets written 3,200 years ago parallels the old testament themes. The Hebrews were semites living in the levant as canaanites and influenced by the Mesopotamian civilizations (Babylonia, Assyria, Sumeria), Egypt, and the Hittites before they became their own people.
maybe other people had a revelation too. You dont know.

Dead Sea Scrolls written up to 200 bc by Jewish-christians practicing christianity BEFORE christianity.
Christians BC? How do you know they werent Manchester United supporters :)

Nasaroeans kept their scriptures from the prechristian time in Palestine providing valuable context to common religious themes in Paul’s time. They followed John the Baptist. Case in point—this OP.
not according to the Biblical testimony.

Nag Hammadi parallels gnostic themes in Paul’s epistles before roman church came along and translated them differently to hide the gnostic tenets.
are there any other heretics who claim that?

Philo writes prechristian themes that parallel the new testament stories, especially the “virgin birth” and the “Word” of God.
unlike you we dont follow Philo

ALL PRE Roman church we find actual historical, existing readily available documents demonstrating how the Jewish religion, scriptures, and christianity naturally developed over thousands of years. And it refutes what the roman church passed down to us.
we dont.

Remain ignorant of the historical truth if you want too but the truth is out there and readily available for those who seek it.
good for you in your seeking then, its your choice
 
The “enuma elish” written three thousand years ago in Assyria is the myth upon which the biblical creation myth was based.

The canaanite religion on tablets written 3,200 years ago parallels the old testament themes. The Hebrews were semites living in the levant as canaanites and influenced by the Mesopotamian civilizations (Babylonia, Assyria, Sumeria), Egypt, and the Hittites before they became their own people.
The term "living as canaanites" in this context is derogatory, unspecific and wrong. Canaan was a place, but there were many people living there.

The Hebrews came out of Egypt circa 16th/15th century BC. Even if the Hebrews were originally from the same place as other Amorites, in that they came from down Ur in Sumer, they were distinguishable from other tribes in Canaan: i.e. from the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, (other) Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites" (Gen 15:13-21).

Dead Sea Scrolls written up to 200 bc by Jewish-christians practicing christianity BEFORE christianity.
BS. The Essenes were jewish separatist observants, not Christians.

Nasaroeans kept their scriptures from the prechristian time in Palestine providing valuable context to common religious themes in Paul’s time. They followed John the Baptist. Case in point—this OP.
Who are the "Nasaroeans"? You seem to be confusing terms. Britannica "In the Greek text there appear two forms of the word: the simple form, Nazarēnos, meaning “of Nazareth,” and the peculiar form, Nazōraios. Before its association with the locality, this latter term may have referred to a Jewish sect of “observants,” or “devotees,” and was later transferred to the Christians."

The term "Nasara" possibly derived from al-Nāṣira (Nazareth) but most likely from Syriac naṣrāyā (Nazaraioi of Acts 24. 5) is an Arabic word used to describe various people not the followers of Mahoment, including Christians. In Acts 25:4, the Greek word Nazóraios means a Nazarene, an inhabitant of Nazareth, which only in post Christian times was applied to the followers of Jesus.

Nag Hammadi parallels gnostic themes in Paul’s epistles before roman church came along and translated them differently to hide the gnostic tenets.

Philo writes prechristian themes that parallel the new testament stories, especially the “virgin birth” and the “Word” of God.

ALL PRE Roman church we find actual historical, existing readily available documents demonstrating how the Jewish religion, scriptures, and christianity naturally developed over thousands of years. And it refutes what the roman church passed down to us.

Remain ignorant of the historical truth if you want too but the truth is out there and readily available for those who seek it.
Just an attempt to subvert Christianity, which is your agenda.
 
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Colossians 1:19, Reconciled by a roman cross or by the divine light standing up or alive, awake, in a lifeless cosmos?

making peace by the blood of his cross (Greek: stauros)” (col. 1:19)

per the Nasarean faith existing among Jews during pre-christian times, a cross covered by a silk banner was used in the ritual of baptism. The cross representing the four corners of the cosmos and the silk banner representing the light shown within the cosmos.

The above verse from Paul is likely referring to the silk banner draped on a “cross” used by the Nasareans symbolizing the heavenly light’s presence “standing erect” (Greek: stauros) in our physical cosmos,


especially given that the preceding context about christ refers to him as the celestial Man or heavenly Adam taught by the Nasareans, for example,

(Col. 1:15) He is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn of all creation.
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
And he is before all things, and
in him all things hold together.
And he is the head of the body, the church.
He is the beginning,
the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.
For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,

^^^^^^ This is NO human on earth but the very firstborn in heaven, the celestial Adam or Man, whose body contains all things, both things in heaven and on earth.

According to the Nasareans his heavenly body suffered a schism resulting in the defective material world breaking away. He then “descends” into a suffering world or cosmos THROUGH HIS PROPHETS to bring knowledge (Greek: gnosis) of the heavenly realm TO HUMANS ON EARTH and salvation with it.

From Drower, the banner and cross and its symbolism originated in Persia (Drower, the Secret Adam, pg., 61)

“The word for ‘banner’ is Persian not semitic—drabsa, pronounced drafsha: it also means ‘a ray or beam of light’… In hymns the banner is always a symbol of light…This banner is square and marked with a cross and four points—probably a sun symbol.”
See also Drabsha where the symbol of the Mandean (Nasarean) faith is a cross draped by a banner symbolizing the light of God in a dead, lifeless cosmos.

History contains a buried “treasure” which illuminates the meaning of scripture. Ignore it if you want too. I can only point “the way”.



 
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Colossians 1:19, Reconciled by a roman cross or by the divine light standing up or alive, awake, in a lifeless cosmos?

making peace by the blood of his cross (Greek: stauros)” (col. 1:19)

per the Nasarean faith ......

The above verse from Paul is likely referring to the silk banner draped on a “cross” used by the Nasareans symbolizing the heavenly light’s presence “standing erect” (Greek: stauros) in our physical cosmos,


especially given that the preceding context about christ refers to him as the celestial Man or heavenly Adam taught by the Nasareans, for example,

(Col. 1:15) He is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn of all creation.
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
And he is before all things, and
in him all things hold together.
And he is the head of the body, the church.
He is the beginning,
the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.
For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,

^^^^^^ This is NO human on earth but the very firstborn in heaven, the celestial Adam or Man, whose body contains all things, both things in heaven and on earth.

According to the Nasareans his heavenly body suffered a schism resulting in the defective material world breaking away. He then “descends” into a suffering world or cosmos THROUGH HIS PROPHETS to bring knowledge (Greek: gnosis) of the heavenly realm TO HUMANS ON EARTH and salvation with it.

From Drower, the banner and cross and its symbolism originated in Persia (Drower, the Secret Adam, pg., 61)

“The word for ‘banner’ is Persian not semitic—drabsa, pronounced drafsha: it also means ‘a ray or beam of light’… In hymns the banner is always a symbol of light…This banner is square and marked with a cross and four points—probably a sun symbol.”
See also Drabsha where the symbol of the Mandean (Nasarean) faith is a cross draped by a banner symbolizing the light of God in a dead, lifeless cosmos.

History contains a buried “treasure” which illuminates the meaning of scripture. Ignore it if you want too. I can only point “the way”.



naah
 
Phillippians 2:8, the anointed Jesus dies on a cross (ie., a standing pole or tree)

Paul certainly associates a human cross (standing pole or tree) here with DEATH as an actual event on earth with an actual human.

Most likely the Teacher of Righteousness who was hung on a tree by the Pharisees around 67 BC. The leader of the Essenes, aka, “The Way”, practicing the sacraments of baptism and the Lords Supper BEFORE traditional christianity is alleged to have started. Talmud refers to him as Yeshua, his followers called him a prophet from God. But set the historical Yeshua aside for the purpose of this post.

If stauros is a metaphor for being alive, awake, or standing erect then here we have the exact opposite meaning applied to a dead human.

Or do we? Specifically, is there another player in the picture, for instance, God himself, present in the human? Is this an example of docetism in which a distinction is made between the human and the divine spirit (ie., christ anointing) upon the man.

If so, then we have the divine spirit’s presence upon and in the human, namely, Yeshua, standing or alive in the dead world, walking, talking, and ultimately experiencing the human shame of being hung on a tree in the body of the dying human. The divine spirit not dying BUT LIVING in the dying man. The divine spirit not dying on the standing tree BUT LIVING on the standing tree. Being an example of humility by which death is overturned for it it was pride in heaven that caused the Fall into suffering and death. And it is humility on earth that heals the divide between humans and God.

There is so much symbolism in the ACT of Yeshua’s death upon a tree which points to the divine spirit alive or standing upon earth. Even in the moment of human death for obedience to God there is life from the presence of the divine spirit upon the human soul that can never be extinguished.

And this is teased out from the surrounding context. For example,

work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. (Phillippians 2:12)​
and​
but [the anointing spirit upon the human Yeshua] emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. (Phil. 2:7)​
If this is the true and the correct meaning ^^^^^^^ then Epiphanius’ description of the heretical group named El-kasaites (“hidden power”, “secret God”) would be accurate when he said,

“Others say…but there came into him [Yeshua] the spirit which is christ and put on the (human) nature of Jesus.”​
Therefore, even though the human nature of Yeshua died on that tree, the divine nature was alive, standing, and awake serving as an example of obedience to God his Father. Again, the human death on a tree is an ultimate symbol of the living divine spirit standing, awake, or alive (Greek: stauros) in the cosmos, healing it of its wound suffered from before the world was made.
 
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2) The original meaning for the word ‘heresy’ is a new teaching. That is all it originally meant. Over time the word heresy became a pejorative associated with evil. But in comparative religion christianity started as a a heresy from the perspective of the Pharisees because it was a new teaching. Therefore, just because a prophet or teacher is is identified as teaching a “heresy” does NOT necessarily mean error, especially in light of the cultural, religious, and linguistic context.

BUNK. The word heresy comes from the idea of a cherry picker, picking and choosing what one wants to hear and believe.
 
BUNK. The word heresy comes from the idea of a cherry picker, picking and choosing what one wants to hear and believe.
You are another example of vain, dishonest christians who speak before they understand then double down on their error to avoid conceding their mistake.

per Britannica online

heresy, theological doctrine or system rejected as false by ecclesiastical authority. The Greek word hairesis (from which heresy is derived) was originally a neutral term that signified merely the holding of a particular set of philosophical opinions. Once appropriated by christianity, however, the term heresy began to convey a note of disapproval.
 
You are another example of vain, dishonest christians who speak before they understand then double down on their error to avoid conceding their mistake.

per Britannica online

heresy, theological doctrine or system rejected as false by ecclesiastical authority. The Greek word hairesis (from which heresy is derived) was originally a neutral term that signified merely the holding of a particular set of philosophical opinions. Once appropriated by christianity, however, the term heresy began to convey a note of disapproval.

"doctrine or opinion at variance with established standards" (or, as Johnson defines it, "an opinion of private men different from that of the catholick and orthodox church"), c. 1200, from Old French heresie, eresie "heresy," and by extension "sodomy, immorality" (12c.), from Latin hæresis, "school of thought, philosophical sect." The Latin word is from Greek hairesis "a taking or choosing for oneself, a choice, a means of taking; a deliberate plan, purpose; philosophical sect, school," from haireisthai "take, seize," middle voice of hairein "to choose," a word of unknown origin, perhaps cognate with Hittite šaru "booty," Welsh herw "booty;" but Beekes offers "no etymology."
 
"doctrine or opinion at variance with established standards" (or, as Johnson defines it, "an opinion of private men different from that of the catholick and orthodox church"), c. 1200, from Old French heresie, eresie "heresy," and by extension "sodomy, immorality" (12c.), from Latin hæresis, "school of thought, philosophical sect." The Latin word is from Greek hairesis "a taking or choosing for oneself, a choice, a means of taking; a deliberate plan, purpose; philosophical sect, school," from haireisthai "take, seize," middle voice of hairein "to choose," a word of unknown origin, perhaps cognate with Hittite šaru "booty," Welsh herw "booty;" but Beekes offers "no etymology."
What I said,
“The original meaning for the word ‘heresy’ is a new teaching. That is all it originally meant.”​

Is what per Britannica online said,
heresy, theological doctrine or system rejected as false by ecclesiastical authority. The Greek word hairesis (from which heresy is derived) was originally a neutral term that signified merely the holding of a particular set of philosophical opinions. Once appropriated by christianity, however, the term heresy began to convey a note of disapproval.

Will there be an apology from you? Of course not, due to your inherent dishonesty and vanity. You guys are predictable because you act from the base animalistic nature.
 
What I said,
“The original meaning for the word ‘heresy’ is a new teaching. That is all it originally meant.”​

Is what per Britannica online said,
heresy, theological doctrine or system rejected as false by ecclesiastical authority. The Greek word hairesis (from which heresy is derived) was originally a neutral term that signified merely the holding of a particular set of philosophical opinions. Once appropriated by christianity, however, the term heresy began to convey a note of disapproval.

Will there be an apology from you? Of course not, due to your inherent dishonesty and vanity. You guys are predictable because you act from the base animalistic nature.
Your religion is mostly a denial of Christianity.
Let me give you a tip, the Talmud has nothing to do with Christianity
 
You are another example of vain, dishonest christians who speak before they understand then double down on their error to avoid conceding their mistake.

per Britannica online

heresy, theological doctrine or system rejected as false by ecclesiastical authority. The Greek word hairesis (from which heresy is derived) was originally a neutral term that signified merely the holding of a particular set of philosophical opinions. Once appropriated by christianity, however, the term heresy began to convey a note of disapproval.
The Talmud also prohibits homosexual acts.
Did you know that?
 
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