Galatians 3:24

JonHawk

Well-known member
@shnarkle
Where in the Bible does it say doers of the law are justified?
If you fulfill the royal law prescribed in the Scripture, you do well...James 2:8
But we should ask EGW as she is the interpreter of scripture. In Selected messages she writes.
I am asked concerning the law in Galatians. What law is the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ? I answer: Both the ceremonial and the moral code of Ten Commandments”.
The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith” (Galatians 3:24). In this scripture, the Holy Spirit through the apostle is speaking especially of the moral law.
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Gal
So if the law was a school master to bring us unto Christ that we might be justified by fait, which according to EGW was both the moral and ceremonial law verse 25 states that now that faith has come we are no longer under the tutor. So we are no longer under the ceremonial or the moral code of the 10 commandments according to EGW.
So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. Rom 7:4
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Where in the Bible does it say doers of the law are justified?
"(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." Romans 2:13

They just aren't justified by the law they are fulfilling. They're justified by faith which is the means by which they fulfill the law.

But we should ask EGW as she is the interpreter of scripture. In Selected messages she writes.
I am asked concerning the law in Galatians. What law is the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ? I answer: Both the ceremonial and the moral code of Ten Commandments”.
Obviously, she has no idea what she's talking about.
The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith” (Galatians 3:24). In this scripture, the Holy Spirit through the apostle is speaking especially of the moral law.
False. Look at the context:

"Christ hath redeemed us from the CURSE OF THE LAW, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:"

The moral law was never a curse, e.g. "the Sabbath was made FOR man...etc." The transgression of the law was what brought curses, ultimately leading to the sacrifice of Christ on a tree. Note also the fact that the covenant cannot be annulled.

"14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise."

Again, note what is being compared here, i.e. inheritance by one's lawful actions or by God's promises. Just because the inheritance is by promise, it doesn't then follow that the moral law is done away with. Here's the critical verse you and your ignorant leader are ignoring:

"19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of TRANSGRESSIONS, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator."

Transgressions???? How can one transgress laws that don't exist in the first place? One can only transgress laws that already exist. When one transgresses a moral law, the law that was added because of that transgression is consulted to determine the penalty or "curse". That law was contained within a book or scroll which was laid beside the Ark of the covenant as a "witness against us" i.e. ( " Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" Col. 2:14)

“Take this Book of the Law, and put it BESIDE the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;" Deuteronomy 31:26

Do you see the difference between STONE TABLETS which are found INSIDE the Ark versus a HANDWRITTEN BOOK placed BESIDE the Ark??? Paul continues:


"21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law."

Again, note the preposition "by".

"22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed."

When Paul refers to being "under" the law, he is again referring to the penalty or curse of the law due to our transgressions of the moral law.

"24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."

This term "schoolmaster" has nothing to do with instruction. Look it up. The schoolmaster doesn't teach anything, but instead makes sure the lessons are learned. How? When one transgresses the law, they have to perform a sacrificial offering, and this served as the motivation to help one refrain from sin. Nobody wants to take their prized lamb and offer it up so they do their best to refrain from doing anything to warrant having to lose their prized lamb.

"26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."

Again, note the preposition "by" faith which is superior to "will or effort" Romans 9:16 When one is given faith to KEEP the law, there is no longer any need for a sacrificial system which was put in place to deal with TRANSGRESSIONS. Again note the difference between keeping the law, and transgressing it.

"27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."

This baptism always refers to the baptism into Christ's death on the cross. The cross paid the penalty or curse. It has nothing to do with KEEPING the law, but everything to do with TRANSGRESSING the law. Please make a note of the difference. This is why you're so confused.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God...Gal 3
@Formersda
Transgressions????
"You were dead in transgressions and sins..." Eph 2
How can one transgress laws that don't exist in the first place?
You answered your own question:
"22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed."
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

"Christ hath redeemed us from the CURSE OF THE LAW, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
"14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. [Gal 3]
For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.” Rom 1:17
...They're justified by faith which is the means by which they fulfill the law.
"26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."

Again, note the preposition "by" faith which is superior to "will or effort" Romans 9:16
"27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." [Gal 3]

This baptism always refers to the baptism into Christ's death on the cross.
And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you're grounded in the faith; Col 1
Obviously, she has no idea what she's talking about.
Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a purified heart and conscience, from faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm. 1 Timothy 1:5-7
15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16 Now to Abraham and his Seed [Christ] were the promises made. Gal 3
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise."
And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 that you do not become sluggish, but imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
God’s Infallible Purpose in Christ
13 For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, 14 saying, “Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you.” 15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise. Heb 6
 
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Common Tater

Active member
Correct.

Correct.

Correct.

Yes, that's what you posted.

Yes, you did.

Yes, I did according to your logic.

I understood why you made this request.

It is most definitely a Strawman argument due to the fact that I never claimed that giving swine to gentiles is "helping them to sin." That's the Strawman.

And I admitted that already. I conceded the point, but also pointed out that it was "unlawful" according to Jesus. If you disagree, take that point up with him.



Again, a Strawman argument. I never made the claim that this was a way to help others to sin, nor did I claim this was Paul's position either. Instead, I pointed out that this is your Strawman argument.

Your ignorance of the Mosaic law is profound. No one who agrees to join in the Mosaic covenant is exempt from the requirements provided. It goes without saying that these same requirements are not binding on anyone who doesn't enter into this agreement. If this isn't the case, then please point out where the rest of the world is automatically part of a covenant they have no idea even exists to begin with?

The Mosaic law stipulates that one may return lost swine, or even sheep and goats which have not been properly slaughtered.

Perhaps you also believe that any human being that has not been slaughtered correctly should be given to Gentiles? Perhaps you have some sort of argument as to why all of mainstream Christianity arbitrarily believes that it's perfectly acceptable for gentiles to eat swine while God forbids it of his chosen people? Notice that my argument is consistent while yours isn't. My argument is consistent in that it only concerns those who have made a covenant with God. God doesn't care about the rest which is why Paul openly points out that God gave up on them. (Again, see Romans 1)

There are a number of laws dealing with women who are menstruating. Do you also feel that men should be held to these rules and regulations as well? If so, why?

There are laws dealing with a priest's duties in the temple, but those rules and regulations are not necessarily relevant to those who are not priests, e.g. marriage within only the tribe of Levi, etc. Perhaps you believe that everyone should marry someone in the tribe of Levi as well?

Perhaps you're conflating this fallen world with the kingdom of God? After all, there are no Jews or Greeks in the kingdom. You do know that these laws are dealing with fallen human beings who have agreed to covenant with their God, don't you?

You do know that Gentiles who have not entered into this covenant are not obligated to keep these laws, right?
OK, let's start with this. Is it a sin for a gentile to eat pork?
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God...Gal 3
shnarkle said:
Obviously, she has no idea what she's talking about.
Are you talking against a prophet of the Lord?
As for the prophet who prophesies peace, only when the word of the prophet actually comes true will that prophet become known as someone whom the Lord has truly sent. Jer 28:9

You know the word God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of All...

All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.
While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. Acts 10:33-44
 
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JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God...Gal 3
shnarkle said:
Obviously, she has no idea what she's talking about.
Formersda said:
Are you talking against a prophet of the Lord?
As for the prophet who prophesies peace, only when the word of the prophet actually comes true will that prophet become known as someone whom the Lord has truly sent. Jer 28:9

Preach the Word
You know the word God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of All...

All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.
While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. Acts 10:33-44

“May the Lord [Rev 1:5] be a true and faithful witness against us ['They shall not enter My rest'] if we do not act in accordance with this word..." Jeremiah 42:5-6
 
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shnarkle

Well-known member
OK, let's start with this. Is it a sin for a gentile to eat pork?
I'll do you one better. Let's start at the beginning with the fact that humanity is already in a fallen state, and eternally damned unless God chooses to redeem them. As Jeremiah points out: "The heart of man is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked."

In other words, Gentiles are damned and there is nothing they can do that will ever please God. They are born to sin. it doesn't matter what they eat because they're sinning by just being alive.

God says that it is an abomination to eat swine, shellfish, blood, etc., but God also points out that there are those he has chosen for a covenant relationship with him, and it is they who must observe these regulations, commandments. etc. It is only they who can see how detestable it truly is to eat swine or shellfish. They were never intended to be consumed. They're filthy and polluted, but then those who have become slaves to sin have no limit to how depraved they can become, and eating these things seems perfectly normal because it is perfectly normal for the damned to sin without a thought.

Again, I already answered this: e.g.

"No one who agrees to join in the Mosaic covenant is exempt from the requirements provided. It goes without saying that these same requirements are not binding on anyone who doesn't enter into this agreement. If this isn't the case, then please point out where the rest of the world is automatically part of a covenant they have no idea even exists to begin with?

The Mosaic law stipulates that one may return lost swine, or even sheep and goats which have not been properly slaughtered.

Perhaps you also believe that any human being that has not been slaughtered correctly should be given to Gentiles? Perhaps you have some sort of argument as to why all of mainstream Christianity arbitrarily believes that it's perfectly acceptable for gentiles to eat swine while God forbids it of his chosen people? Notice that my argument is consistent while yours isn't. My argument is consistent in that it only concerns those who have made a covenant with God. God doesn't care about the rest which is why Paul openly points out that God gave up on them. (Again, see Romans 1)

There are a number of laws dealing with women who are menstruating. Do you also feel that men should be held to these rules and regulations as well? If so, why?

There are laws dealing with a priest's duties in the temple, but those rules and regulations are not necessarily relevant to those who are not priests, e.g. marriage within only the tribe of Levi, etc. Perhaps you believe that everyone should marry someone in the tribe of Levi as well?

Perhaps you're conflating this fallen world with the kingdom of God? After all, there are no Jews or Greeks in the kingdom. You do know that these laws are dealing with fallen human beings who have agreed to covenant with their God, don't you?

You do know that Gentiles who have not entered into this covenant are not obligated to keep these laws, right?"
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God...Gal 3
shnarkle said:
Obviously, she has no idea what she's talking about.
Formersda said:
Are you talking against a prophet of the Lord?
As for the prophet who prophesies peace, only when the word of the prophet actually comes true will that prophet become known as someone whom the Lord has truly sent. Jer 28:9

Preach the Word
You know the word God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of All...

All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.
While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. Acts 10:33-44

“May the Lord [Rev 1:5] be a true and faithful witness against us ['They shall not enter My rest'] if we do not act in accordance with this word..." Jeremiah 42:5-6
@Formersda
I'll do you one better. Let's start at the beginning with the fact that humanity is already in a fallen state, and eternally damned unless God chooses to redeem them. As Jeremiah points out: "The heart of man is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked."

In other words, Gentiles are damned and there is nothing they can do that will ever please God. ...

You do know that Gentiles who have not entered into this covenant are not obligated to keep these laws, right?"
They glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.” Acts 11:16-18
And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13:48
They reported that God had opened the door of faith to the Gentiles. Acts 14:27
“Therefore let it be known to you that the salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will hear it!” Acts 28:25-29
 
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Common Tater

Active member
I'll do you one better. Let's start at the beginning with the fact that humanity is already in a fallen state, and eternally damned unless God chooses to redeem them. As Jeremiah points out: "The heart of man is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked."

In other words, Gentiles are damned and there is nothing they can do that will ever please God. They are born to sin. it doesn't matter what they eat because they're sinning by just being alive.

God says that it is an abomination to eat swine, shellfish, blood, etc., but God also points out that there are those he has chosen for a covenant relationship with him, and it is they who must observe these regulations, commandments. etc. It is only they who can see how detestable it truly is to eat swine or shellfish. They were never intended to be consumed. They're filthy and polluted, but then those who have become slaves to sin have no limit to how depraved they can become, and eating these things seems perfectly normal because it is perfectly normal for the damned to sin without a thought.

Again, I already answered this: e.g.

"No one who agrees to join in the Mosaic covenant is exempt from the requirements provided. It goes without saying that these same requirements are not binding on anyone who doesn't enter into this agreement. If this isn't the case, then please point out where the rest of the world is automatically part of a covenant they have no idea even exists to begin with?

The Mosaic law stipulates that one may return lost swine, or even sheep and goats which have not been properly slaughtered.

Perhaps you also believe that any human being that has not been slaughtered correctly should be given to Gentiles? Perhaps you have some sort of argument as to why all of mainstream Christianity arbitrarily believes that it's perfectly acceptable for gentiles to eat swine while God forbids it of his chosen people? Notice that my argument is consistent while yours isn't. My argument is consistent in that it only concerns those who have made a covenant with God. God doesn't care about the rest which is why Paul openly points out that God gave up on them. (Again, see Romans 1)

There are a number of laws dealing with women who are menstruating. Do you also feel that men should be held to these rules and regulations as well? If so, why?

There are laws dealing with a priest's duties in the temple, but those rules and regulations are not necessarily relevant to those who are not priests, e.g. marriage within only the tribe of Levi, etc. Perhaps you believe that everyone should marry someone in the tribe of Levi as well?

Perhaps you're conflating this fallen world with the kingdom of God? After all, there are no Jews or Greeks in the kingdom. You do know that these laws are dealing with fallen human beings who have agreed to covenant with their God, don't you?

You do know that Gentiles who have not entered into this covenant are not obligated to keep these laws, right?"
The chosen people that God gave those food laws and the rest of the mosaic covenant to were the Children of Israel. Gentiles who become Christians enter into the New Covenant, not the Mosaic Covenant. Nowhere does the New Testament tell us that Gentiles must put themselves under the Mosaic Law, in point of fact both Acts 15 and the Book of Galatians tell us the exact opposite.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
The chosen people that God gave those food laws and the rest of the mosaic covenant to were the Children of Israel. Gentiles who become Christians enter into the New Covenant, not the Mosaic Covenant. Nowhere does the New Testament tell us that Gentiles must put themselves under the Mosaic Law, in point of fact both Acts 15 and the Book of Galatians tell us the exact opposite.
You're seriously misinformed. Acts 15 explicitly points out that the elders are not going to belabor anything more than the most egregious problems due to the fact that these gentile converts already have the entirety of the Mosaic law available to them each and every Sabbath day.

"19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood."

Again, note the reason:

"21For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day."

Furthermore, Luke also records the fact that the Mosaic law was given to the church:

"37This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

38This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto US:"

Give to who???? Who is Luke writing to???? He's writing to the church!!! Q.E.D.

Post whatever passage you please from Paul's letter to the Galatians, and I will gladly refute it.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
shnarkle said:
@Common Tater
I'll do you one better. Let's start at the beginning with the fact that humanity is already in a fallen state, and eternally damned.... As Jeremiah points out: "The heart of man is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked."
But if the wicked turns and does what is right, he will not die, he will surely live. Ezekiel 18:21
Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.
Take care that what the prophets have said does not happen to you:
“‘Look, you scoffers, wonder and perish, for I am going to do something in your days
that you would never believe, even if someone told you.’
The people invited them to speak further about these things on the next Sabbath. Acts 13:39-42
Jesus Greater Than Moses
Therefore, brethren whom God has set apart for Himself—you who are chosen for heaven—look to Jesus and live.

Warning Against Unbelief
So, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts, don't be stubborn, like those who fell in the wilderness," Heb 3:1-8

They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ...
We should not test Christ, as some of them did—These things happened to them as examples and warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come. 1 Cor 10:1-9
Post whatever passage you please from Paul's letter to the Galatians, and I will gladly refute it.
Tell me this, Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Gal 3:2

“Therefore let it be known to you that the salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will hear it!” Acts 28:25-29
 
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JonHawk

Well-known member
As for the prophet who prophesies peace, only when the word of the prophet actually comes true will that prophet become known as someone whom the Lord has truly sent. Jer 28:9
Preach the Word
You know the word God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of All...
All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.
While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. Acts 10:33-44
“May the Lord [Rev 1:5] be a true and faithful witness against us ['They shall not enter My rest'] if we do not act in accordance with this word..." Jeremiah 42:5-6
@shnarkle
I quoted EGW and you said she didn’t know anything,
“We may have to remain here in this world because of insubordination many more years, as did the children of Israel; but for Christ's sake, His people should not add sin to sin by charging God with the consequence of their own wrong course of action” (1901) Evangelism, p. 696.

"God is not at fault. It is the unbelief, the worldliness, unconsecration, and strife among the Lord's professed people that have kept us in this world of sin and sorrow so many years” (Selected Messages, book 1, pp. 67-69).
she is a prophet you have spoken against a prophet of the Lord
The way of peace they have not known.

If only you had listened to My instruction, then your peace would have been like a river...
Your children would have been as countless as the sand; Their name never cut off or blotted out from my presence. Isaiah 48:17-19
 
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Common Tater

Active member
You're seriously misinformed. Acts 15 explicitly points out that the elders are not going to belabor anything more than the most egregious problems due to the fact that these gentile converts already have the entirety of the Mosaic law available to them each and every Sabbath day.

"19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood."

Again, note the reason:

"21For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day."

Furthermore, Luke also records the fact that the Mosaic law was given to the church:

"37This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

38This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto US:"

Give to who???? Who is Luke writing to???? He's writing to the church!!! Q.E.D.

Post whatever passage you please from Paul's letter to the Galatians, and I will gladly refute it.
Misinformed? I suggest you go back to Acts 15 and read what the problem was.

When they arrived at Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they reported all that God had done with them. 5But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.” Acts 15:4-5 NASB

What did James and the Council decide that Gentile converts need to do?

“For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell.” Acts 15:4-5 NASB

Nothing about clean/unclean food laws. Nothing about wearing clothing with two types of cloth. Nothing about planting two different crops together. Nothing about any of the laws that were intended as metaphors for Jews remaining separated and apart from Gentiles because:

"I am the LORD your God, who has separated you from the peoples. ‘You are therefore to make a distinction between the clean animal and the unclean, and between the unclean bird and the clean; and you shall not make yourselves detestable by animal or by bird or by anything that creeps on the ground, which I have separated for you as unclean. ‘Thus you are to be holy to Me, for I the LORD am holy; and I have set you apart from the peoples to be Mine." Leviticus 20:24-26 NASB

Go to Acts 10 and Peter's vision. The lightbulb goes on for Peter and he finally realizes that the food laws regarding clean and unclean were a metaphor for Jews and Gentiles.

And you are killing the context of Acts 7. Look at other translations that the KJV for verse 38. Words like assembly and congregation are used, even in the NKJV. It isn't the Christian church that is being referred to, it is the Children of Israel. The Law was given to them. The Children of Israel were followers of the Law, whereas the Christian church was made up of the followers of Christ. The church understood this because Paul had explained that the Law was simply a tutor, but now that faith had come, there was no longer a need for a tutor.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Misinformed?
Most definitely!!!
I suggest you go back to Acts 15 and read what the problem was.
I would only suggest that you address what I just posted or concede the point.
When they arrived at Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they reported all that God had done with them. 5But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.” Acts 15:4-5 NASB
Start with vs. 1 where it plainly points out that these legalists were assuming that no one could be saved unless they were first circumcised. We all know that's not the case at all!!! They even point out that the gentiles received the spirit and were saved without being first circumcised. Ultimately, it boils down to an argument for justification by the works of the law, but even more so with regards to the traditions which are distinguished not only in this chapter (vs.21), but by Christ himself who points out that what is taught "in the seat of Moses" must be carried out, but what they chose to add afterwards could be ignored.
What did James and the Council decide that Gentile converts need to do?

“For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell.” Acts 15:4-5 NASB

Nothing about clean/unclean food laws.
False. "blood and from things strangled" is a direct reference to the dietary laws.
Nothing about wearing clothing with two types of cloth.
Nothing about cannibalism. Nothing about transgenderism. Nothing about bestiality.
Nothing about any of the laws that were intended as metaphors
You need to brush up on the purpose of figurative speech before you go making these blatantly silly remarks. There are tell tale signs that accompany each and every figure of speech used in the bible, and you have yet to prove that the figure Metaphor is being used at all. We're waiting.
Go to Acts 10 and Peter's vision. The lightbulb goes on for Peter and he finally realizes that the food laws regarding clean and unclean were a metaphor for Jews and Gentiles.
Correction: Symbol, and yet by definition, the symbol cannot be substituted for itself. Therefore, the dietary laws are not done away with.
And you are killing the context of Acts 7. Look at other translations that the KJV for verse 38. Words like assembly and congregation are used, even in the NKJV. It isn't the Christian church that is being referred to, it is the Children of Israel.
Look at the original Greek and note that I'm referring to the fact that it was given to "us" which is a blatant reference to Luke's audience of born again Christians! You're reading comprehension skills need some serious work. He openly points out that the law was given to their "fathers" who couldn't handle it. The children of Israel didn't then give it to themselves all over again. The Christian sect of Judaism was conceived within Judaism itself, and the oracles of God were then passed on to them. That's exactly what that passage is pointing out. Read it again, and stop presenting these blatantly Strawman arguments.
The Law was given to them. The Children of Israel were followers of the Law,
Agreed, except Luke records that they failed!!!!
whereas the Christian church was made up of the followers of Christ. The church understood this because Paul had explained that the Law was simply a tutor,
False. You're conflating the commandments with the "handwriting of ordinances that were against us"; "the law that was added because of transgressions"; 'the penalty' or "curse" of the law.
but now that faith had come, there was no longer a need for a tutor.
The commandments are not the tutor or the schoolmaster. The commandments are the subject matter that the tutor is tasked with making sure the student learns. You really need to use some critical thinking skills here because your whole argument is completely incoherent. What does a tutor or schoolmaster teach??? NOTHING!!! They don't teach anything. They simply make sure that the lessons are learned, and how do they do that??? They do that by penalizing one for committing sin. It is the sacrificial system. This is explicitly what Paul is pointing out!
 

Formersda

Active member
"(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." Romans 2:13

They just aren't justified by the law they are fulfilling. They're justified by faith which is the means by which they fulfill the law.


Obviously, she has no idea what she's talking about.

False. Look at the context:

"Christ hath redeemed us from the CURSE OF THE LAW, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:"

The moral law was never a curse, e.g. "the Sabbath was made FOR man...etc." The transgression of the law was what brought curses, ultimately leading to the sacrifice of Christ on a tree. Note also the fact that the covenant cannot be annulled.

"14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise."

Again, note what is being compared here, i.e. inheritance by one's lawful actions or by God's promises. Just because the inheritance is by promise, it doesn't then follow that the moral law is done away with. Here's the critical verse you and your ignorant leader are ignoring:

"19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of TRANSGRESSIONS, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator."

Transgressions???? How can one transgress laws that don't exist in the first place? One can only transgress laws that already exist. When one transgresses a moral law, the law that was added because of that transgression is consulted to determine the penalty or "curse". That law was contained within a book or scroll which was laid beside the Ark of the covenant as a "witness against us" i.e. ( " Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" Col. 2:14)

“Take this Book of the Law, and put it BESIDE the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;" Deuteronomy 31:26

Do you see the difference between STONE TABLETS which are found INSIDE the Ark versus a HANDWRITTEN BOOK placed BESIDE the Ark??? Paul continues:


"21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law."

Again, note the preposition "by".

"22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed."

When Paul refers to being "under" the law, he is again referring to the penalty or curse of the law due to our transgressions of the moral law.

"24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."

This term "schoolmaster" has nothing to do with instruction. Look it up. The schoolmaster doesn't teach anything, but instead makes sure the lessons are learned. How? When one transgresses the law, they have to perform a sacrificial offering, and this served as the motivation to help one refrain from sin. Nobody wants to take their prized lamb and offer it up so they do their best to refrain from doing anything to warrant having to lose their prized lamb.

"26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."

Again, note the preposition "by" faith which is superior to "will or effort" Romans 9:16 When one is given faith to KEEP the law, there is no longer any need for a sacrificial system which was put in place to deal with TRANSGRESSIONS. Again note the difference between keeping the law, and transgressing it.

"27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."

This baptism always refers to the baptism into Christ's death on the cross. The cross paid the penalty or curse. It has nothing to do with KEEPING the law, but everything to do with TRANSGRESSING the law. Please make a note of the difference. This is why you're so confused.
EGW has stated the Law in Galatians is the moral law as well. I didn’t make it up it’s from the prophets mouth.

both the book of the Law and the tablets are in and on the ark, both are as sacred doesn’t mean the law is separated as the book of the law also contains the 10 commandments
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
@Common Tater
I would only suggest that you address what I just posted ...
Start with vs. 1 where it plainly points out that these legalists were assuming that no one could be saved unless they were first circumcised. We all know that's not the case at all!!! They even point out that the gentiles received the spirit and were saved without being first circumcised.
Look at the original Greek and note that I'm referring to the fact that it was given to "us" which is a blatant reference to Luke's audience of born again Christians!
And any born again believer comprehends that "Circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit" (Rom 2:29).
You're reading comprehension skills need some serious work. He openly points out that the law was given to their "fathers" who couldn't handle it.
The fathers of faith could indeed handle the truth, the covenant confirmed by God in Christ, you must be referring to the blind guides "who always resist the Spirit, as your fathers did, so do you." (Acts 7:51)

Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers, 9 and that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy; Rom 15:7-9

Abraham received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe... and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith; Rom 4:11-13

Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all; Rom 4:16
Correction: Symbol, and yet by definition, the symbol cannot be substituted for itself. Therefore, the dietary laws are not done away with.
When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand: Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”
Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”
But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.” Matt 15:10-14

Blind Leaders, the ungodly Doomed
These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. Jude 1:19
 
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