Genesis 1:1-5 and wof.

tbeachhead

Active member
Surely you mean "the wicked for the day of destruction." -- Prov 16:4.

The wicked. Wicked, guilty, ungodly men. Not darkness, as in "dark, not light."
No...Darkness. As in, "You need no light for God is the light of the city, and there is no darkness at all." Darkness is done, kaput, fini, xallas.
 

BlessedAnomaly

Active member
No...Darkness. As in, "You need no light for God is the light of the city, and there is no darkness at all." Darkness is done, kaput, fini, xallas.
Proverbs 16:4, which you quoted first, does not contain a word for "darkness." Any kind. The word it contains where you used "darkness" is the word "wicked."

Now you twist Revelation 21:23 slightly: "The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, because the glory of God lights it up, and its lamp is the Lamb." It does not just talk of a need for light -- that light is pointed out to be the sun and the moon.

Yes, there is a spiritual context to it, but it clearly, at the surface, talks of the sun and the moon, whose physical light gives no spiritual edification in and of themselves. And they should not glibly be removed from the explanation so that darkness can mean something -- a something that you want to lay over Genesis and say that God didn't create.

Revelation 21:23, of course, being a reference to Isaiah 60:19-20 which again speak of the sun no longer supplying light by day, and the moon's brightness. These will go away and the Lord will provide such light. It tells us in v20 that the sun will not set -- physical, for spiritual lights do not set anyway; the moon will not disappear -- for the Lord is permanent light. Is it also spiritual? Yes, of course. In the same verse it tells us our sorrow will be over.

But none of this, in the slightly misquoted manner you use them, take away the darkness having (and currently) existed in the earth. And Isaiah clearly tells us where that darkness came from: the Lord himself tells us that he created it. He had a purpose for it. By the time we get to Revelation 21, that purpose will be over, done with, gone. Yes, physical and spiritual.
 

tbeachhead

Active member
Proverbs 16:4, which you quoted first, does not contain a word for "darkness." Any kind. The word it contains where you used "darkness" is the word "wicked."
You'll notice that I wasn't quoting proverbs...unless only in paraphrase. I was making connections, because darkness is done away with on that day.

Now you twist Revelation 21:23 slightly: "The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, because the glory of God lights it up, and its lamp is the Lamb." It does not just talk of a need for light -- that light is pointed out to be the sun and the moon.
And, as the psalms point out, "In your light we see light."

I think you're nitpicking. The point remans pretty clear. No need for light when the glory surrounds you...no room for darkness when the Light is there.

Yes, there is a spiritual context to it, but it clearly, at the surface, talks of the sun and the moon, whose physical light gives no spiritual edification in and of themselves. And they should not glibly be removed from the explanation so that darkness can mean something -- a something that you want to lay over Genesis and say that God didn't create.
I never want to say more than what is written...proverbs is clear about that. Genesis 1 gives us God creating...and the substance from which he formed it: tohu wa bohu (formlessness and vacuum) and darkness over the deep.

That's there, and those are the materials God used to create the heavens and the earth. I've been working on this for years, and still have no real understanding...but I always see it as the potter sees clay: God formed the universe from the materials at hand...and as the programmer writes the code into a machine that is created specifically to be capable of responding to it.

Revelation 21:23, of course, being a reference to Isaiah 60:19-20 which again speak of the sun no longer supplying light by day, and the moon's brightness. These will go away and the Lord will provide such light. It tells us in v20 that the sun will not set -- physical, for spiritual lights do not set anyway; the moon will not disappear -- for the Lord is permanent light. Is it also spiritual? Yes, of course. In the same verse it tells us our sorrow will be over.

But none of this, in the slightly misquoted manner you use them, take away the darkness having (and currently) existed in the earth. And Isaiah clearly tells us where that darkness came from: the Lord himself tells us that he created it. He had a purpose for it. By the time we get to Revelation 21, that purpose will be over, done with, gone. Yes, physical and spiritual.
I guess you just said what I'm saying better than I did. I'm fine with that.
 

tbeachhead

Active member
IMO YHWY was a continuation.

So you are not a proponent of the two creation theory.

No Elohim .... no El.

Only YHWH ......
This is weird...sorry. YHWH is a name with meaning: "I am already what I will be." El is a title...and elohim is the plural: the title in three dimensions. God is YHWH, El elohim elohenu echad. I am what I will be God of Gods, our Gods, the One.
 

Slyzr

Active member
This is weird...sorry. YHWH is a name with meaning: "I am already what I will be." El is a title...and elohim is the plural: the title in three dimensions. God is YHWH, El elohim elohenu echad. I am what I will be God of Gods, our Gods, the One.

No worries .....

I don't disagree with that .Pete. :cool:

One came out of the many.

Read what you wrote.
 

BlessedAnomaly

Active member
You'll notice that I wasn't quoting proverbs...unless only in paraphrase. I was making connections, because darkness is done away with on that day.
I'll notice that this is a dangerous manner to deal with scriptural truths. Don't read the actual text and make up a meaning that you like.

And, as the psalms point out, "In your light we see light."

I think you're nitpicking. The point remans pretty clear. No need for light when the glory surrounds you...no room for darkness when the Light is there.
I'm nitpicking for a reason. You are in a dangerous zone of twisting scripture to your own meaning and wants. And even more dangerous when the overall is somewhere in the ballpark of truth. But the details remove the the fiber from what was actually said by using paraphrases incorrectly. You quoted a verse ALMOST word for word, but removed "the wicked" so that you could insert "darkness." Not the same. Similar, in that the wicked are walking in darkness. But, still, not the same.

I never want to say more than what is written...proverbs is clear about that. Genesis 1 gives us God creating...and the substance from which he formed it: tohu wa bohu (formlessness and vacuum) and darkness over the deep.

That's there, and those are the materials God used to create the heavens and the earth. I've been working on this for years, and still have no real understanding...but I always see it as the potter sees clay: God formed the universe from the materials at hand...and as the programmer writes the code into a machine that is created specifically to be capable of responding to it.
No, Pete. No.

God did not "form[ed] the universe from the materials at hand." God created the universe from scratch.

God created the materials you claim are at hand.
God created the tohu bohu.
God created the heavens and the earth....from nothing.

God did not have a machine to code into. God had to create the machine, then he could create code, then he could code into the machine.

Nothing -- no thing -- existed prior to God's creation.

When you alter this, you alter who God is. You alter the fantastic nature of what he did. You remove the power of his creating and reduce it to a building block set that comes in a box.

Tohu bohu was God's idea.

I guess you just said what I'm saying better than I did. I'm fine with that.
Even this part: "the slightly misquoted manner you use them"? ;)
 

Slyzr

Active member
I'll notice that this is a dangerous manner to deal with scriptural truths. Don't read the actual text and make up a meaning that you like.


I'm nitpicking for a reason. You are in a dangerous zone of twisting scripture to your own meaning and wants. And even more dangerous when the overall is somewhere in the ballpark of truth. But the details remove the the fiber from what was actually said by using paraphrases incorrectly. You quoted a verse ALMOST word for word, but removed "the wicked" so that you could insert "darkness." Not the same. Similar, in that the wicked are walking in darkness. But, still, not the same.


No, Pete. No.

God did not "form[ed] the universe from the materials at hand." God created the universe from scratch.

God created the materials you claim are at hand.
God created the tohu bohu.
God created the heavens and the earth....from nothing.

God did not have a machine to code into. God had to create the machine, then he could create code, then he could code into the machine.

Nothing -- no thing -- existed prior to God's creation.

When you alter this, you alter who God is. You alter the fantastic nature of what he did. You remove the power of his creating and reduce it to a building block set that comes in a box.

Tohu bohu was God's idea.


Even this part: "the slightly misquoted manner you use them"? ;)

OMG we are livening a hologram.

Computer pull up program xyz.

access denied ...... that program is running.

WoF is active.
 
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