Given the right …..

Well, not sure what the "given the right" thread title has to do with the text at hand or the OP, or what "context" (the answer given to my inquiry) is supposed to do to help correlate the title with the OP, so I'll attempt to give an answer to the OP.

I wanted clarity on the correlation because I thought it may be key to understanding the text and OP.

Although I see all the things in Ephesians 2 which were accomplished on the cross and resurrection as a gift of God to the elect (salvation itself, which is directly referred to as a gift; Romans 6:23) it appears that perhaps Paul is showing us that grace is the gift to which he is directly referencing.

But then again what exactly "it" is making reference to has been a matter of debate for centuries. The fact remains though, not one element mentioned in the text makes a "bad" gift.
 
Cracker Jack's box
It's a repeated mantra, kind of like in Eastern Mysticism where they say "Ohhhhmmmmm!" over and over again with their legs crossed.

He thinks if he repeats it long enough he may levitate, er, um, I mean make it come true.

No Calvinist remotely teaches his asinine accusation of God believing for us. It is simply others showing disdain for God's ways and truths, i.e. they HATE that truth. But that's all they have, false accusations.

Why do they say that though? Because then, since it is true, they can't trust in themselves any longer, can't have faith in their faith, and can't have faith in their decision, what we call free will decisional salvation. It pulls the proverbial rug out from under their feet. Instead, they would have to actually for once trust God, agree that He elects unconditionally, that He grants faith and repentance, and then give Him all the glory. Kind of like He's God, or something.

But they don't trust Him. That's the bottom line.

Them doing that would be comparable to a snowball's chance in the Lake of Fire.
 
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Ephesians 2:8-10,
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

I enjoy looking into things to find the truth. I’ve learned that at times I am wrong about things and am thankful to be able to accept that and by the grace of God accept what is truth.

For years I have argued that the “gift” in Ephesians 2:8 was faith. Thankfully I’ve learned all must he kept in context with the immediate chapter, book and finally all scripture.
I would say that faith is the gift described in the context.
We do after all read in Romans 10:17 that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

In 1 Corinthians 12:9 that faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit.

That said....
What if Paul was simply making a summary statement about everything he had stated from the beginning of his letter, to that point?

There's some incredibly awesome stuff from verse 3 of chapter 1 all the way through to verse 8 of chapter 2.

And I'm pretty sure that you would agree...

Just something to consider...



Before I go much further I’d like to see what others think the gift in Ephesians 2:8 is?

So whoever wants to share, what is the gift?
Considering Eph 2:8-10 ? And the rest of context?

Thanks
Everything from 1:3 through 2:8 is a gift, faith included.
 
I would say that faith is the gift described in the context.
We do after all read in Romans 10:17 that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Of course. How else could faith possibly come?
But the word itself does not cause faith. If it did, everyone would be saved. Wouldn’t you agree?
In 1 Corinthians 12:9 that faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit.

That said....
What if Paul was simply making a summary statement about everything he had stated from the beginning of his letter, to that point?
Would you explain that a bit?

Thanks
 
Tom I don’t believe anyone disagrees with you.

But I think if you understood total depravity how the Bible teaches it you would see it differently
If that is so they must

first drop the idea faith is the gift of Eph 2:8

Then they must understand that total depravity and total inability is not the same thing
 
If that is so they must

first drop the idea faith is the gift of Eph 2:8

Then they must understand that total depravity and total inability is not the same thing
Well Tom they don’t have the ability because they are totally depraved.
 
Of course. How else could faith possibly come?
But the word itself does not cause faith. If it did, everyone would be saved. Wouldn’t you agree?
Nope.
According to Hebrews 4:2, the word was given to the Hebrew people in Numbers 14, but not everyone who heard, mixed faith with the message given. And as such, did not benefit.... even though everyone heard the same message...
Would you explain that a bit?

Thanks
Ephesians 1:3 starts with

Eph 1:3 WEB Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,


He then goes on and it appears to me that he "rattles off" a rather comprehensive list of all the spiritual blessings given to us, summing it up in 2:8.

Eph 2:8 WEB for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,


The summary is initialized with the word....

For....

For by grace ......

I won't argue that I could very well be wrong. But as I thought about your question and statements, it dawned on me that the whole thing leading up to verse 8 is a list of various blessings with which God has "graced" us.

They're all gifts.
All of them.

Here's a grammarian description....

In my English class in college, my professor described the nature of a paragraph.

You have an opening statement that makes a general statement about what the paragraph will contain.
You then create a general list of all the components that are a part of your opening statement.
You then make a closing statement that summarizes the truth of your declaration in the opening statement of the paragraph.

Or, from an academic perspective.

Paragraphs contain three main parts: a topic sentence, supporting sentences and a concluding sentence. A topic sentence contains the topic and an opinion, or controlling idea. It is often, but not always, the first sentence of the paragraph.

Any university English department would have this. I used "paragraph structure" as my search parameter.


Vs 1:3 is the topic sentence...

God has given us every spiritual blessing....

Vss 1:4 through 2:7 are the supporting sentences. A rather detailed description of what those spiritual blessings are.

Vs 2:8 is the concluding sentence. He sums up his opening statement... for by grace.....

It's a really good design for developing the idea...

So... yeah.... the gift is everything from 1:3 through 2:8.

Eph 2:8 WEB for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

I hope that makes sense to you.
 
Amen. Through being born again. Or that word Tom hates , regeneration.
Yes Tom keeps trying to pass that a pile of bones can believe all of itself, even though it is dead, and can do nothing. Tom’s faith is in his faith as if he had any before he was born again.
Relying on a pile of bones isn’t a good place to be.

When God raises up a pile of bones and gives life, “born again” then yes of course this new creation has faith.
 
Yes Tom keeps trying to pass that a pile of bones can believe all of itself, even though it is dead, and can do nothing. Tom’s faith is in his faith as if he had any before he was born again.
Relying on a pile of bones isn’t a good place to be.

When God raises up a pile of bones and gives life, “born again” then yes of course this new creation has faith.
its scripture

you guys never answer

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

dead man believes and receives life

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

dead man must come to Christ through faith to receive life

John 5:24–25 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

the dead must hear so that they should live

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

The dead must eat his flesh , drink his blood through faith to live


why is it scripture speaks contrary to your view and you cannot answer it
 
its scripture

you guys never answer

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

dead man believes and receives life

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

dead man must come to Christ through faith to receive life

John 5:24–25 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

the dead must hear so that they should live

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

The dead must eat his flesh , drink his blood through faith to live


why is it scripture speaks contrary to your view and you cannot answer it
Tom
I do answer. You just don’t accept it. You have dead people doing things, a pile of bones deciding to believe something. You rely on the dead to save yourself.

I don’t. I believe what scripture teaches. Jesus saves, not the dead saving themselves.
 
its scripture

you guys never answer

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

dead man believes and receives life

John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

dead man must come to Christ through faith to receive life

John 5:24–25 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

the dead must hear so that they should live

John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

The dead must eat his flesh , drink his blood through faith to live


why is it scripture speaks contrary to your view and you cannot answer it
Tom you take so much out of context. And twist scripture.

I’m really worried about you and those that may believe you. ?
 
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