God’s Sovereign election by Grace and the anomaly of the pro- life position.

Y

Yahweh will increase

Member
Before I go into this, exactly what did God commission the church to do, legislated his moral laws to the unbelievers who have no power of the Holy Spirit to obey them and quite like the Scribes, Pharisees and hypocrites would have done?


Wasn’t it rather to go into all the world and preach the gospel unto all nations instead?


I personally don’t involve myself in voting anymore and the reason why, is because in the book of Daniel chapters 2 and 4, and also in Acts 1:6-8, we are told that the times and seasons for the rise and fall of Kings and Kingdoms is in God’s own power and not for us to decide.


A good reason for this, is that we really don’t know what we are doing and not being able to look into the hearts of the candidates, for if we did, we would never have shown God that we wanted a man like Donald J. Trump to be our President.


However, God indeed gave us what we wanted and along with it also the trouble that came with him, like the virus and the economic crash and the racial tensions and also the worse wild fires recorded in history and also damaging hurricanes and tornados as well.


This reminds me of when Israel wanted a King like the other nations and although God was displeased with them for this, he gave them what they wanted as well and also many problems to go along with their rebellions.


I believe that we have the same problem and yet we profess to believe in God’s Sovereignty and his election by grace.


However, if we had of left this in God’s business and power like the scriptures reveal that it belongs, surely we would have been much better off and God would have blessed us with much better leaders than what we have seen thus far.


Make no mistake about this however, for I am not talking about being apathetic here, but on the contrary I am talking about us diligently seeking and asking and trusting God in true faith for the best leaders possible to rule over us and while getting on with what business he gave unto us in preaching the gospel.


Also, I think we need to get it strait just exactly what Pro Life is from God’s perspective and viewpoint.


For it isn’t saving the unborn from death in the womb only to be born and then also die in the second death and which scripture reveals will happen to the greater majority of those who are born.


Now then, here is my question to all you who believe as I do in God’s Sovereign election by Grace.



So please tell me, how does the pro-life position align itself with God’s Sovereign election by grace?



Remember also, that God saved Moses and Jesus from death but both men’s parents were also believers and therefore obeying God by doing what they did.



Just go and search the book of Acts and you will not find the church ever being involved in any civil disobedience other than preaching the gospel message and teaching and baptizing those who believe.



Do you not believe that whoever God has determined to be his elect will indeed be born from the womb to repent and believe in Jesus and be born again by the Spirit?



Do you also believe that no one who is not one of God’s elect will be saved but instead die in the second death?



Then why are you in a hell bent fury to try to save the unborn from having to end up dying in the second death?


Wouldn’t you agree that it would be more merciful to leave this in the power of the Sovereign God.


Being that those who are his elect will indeed be born to repent and believe anyhow but those who aren’t, will end up dying in the second death even after they are saved from dying in the womb and which is far worse than them dying in the womb.
 
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TomFL

Well-known member
Yahweh will increase said:
Before I go into this, exactly what did God commission the church to do, legislated his moral laws to the unbelievers who have no power of the Holy Spirit to obey them and quite like the Scribes, Pharisees and hypocrites would have done?


Wasn’t it rather to go into all the world and preach the gospel unto all nations instead?


I personally don’t involve myself in voting anymore and the reason why, is because in the book of Daniel chapters 2 and 4, and also in Acts 1:6-8, we are told that the times and seasons for the rise and fall of Kings and Kingdoms is in God’s own power and not for us to decide.


A good reason for this, is that we really don’t know what we are doing and not being able to look into the hearts of the candidates, for if we did, we would never have shown God that we wanted a man like Donald J. Trump to be our President.


However, God indeed gave us what we wanted and along with it also the trouble that came with him, like the virus and the economic crash and the racial tensions and also the worse wild fires recorded in history and also damaging hurricanes and tornados as well.


This reminds me of when Israel wanted a King like the other nations and although God was displeased with them for this, he gave them what they wanted as well and also many problems to go along with their rebellions.


I believe that we have the same problem and yet we profess to believe in God’s Sovereignty and his election by grace.


However, if we had of left this in God’s business and power like the scriptures reveal that it belongs, surely we would have been much better off and God would have blessed us with much better leaders than what we have seen thus far.


Make no mistake about this however, for I am not talking about being apathetic here, but on the contrary I am talking about us diligently seeking and asking and trusting God in true faith for the best leaders possible to rule over us and while getting on with what business he gave unto us in preaching the gospel.


Also, I think we need to get it strait just exactly what Pro Life is from God’s perspective and viewpoint.


For it isn’t saving the unborn from death in the womb only to be born and then also die in the second death and which scripture reveals will happen to the greater majority of those who are born.


Now then, here is my question to all you who believe as I do in God’s Sovereign election by Grace.



So please tell me, how does the pro-life position align itself with God’s Sovereign election by grace?



Remember also, that God saved Moses and Jesus from death but both men’s parents were also believers and therefore obeying God by doing what they did.



Just go and search the book of Acts and you will not find the church ever being involved in any civil disobedience other, than preaching the gospel message and teaching and baptizing those who believe.



Do you not believe that whoever God has determined to be his elect will indeed be born from the womb to repent and believe in Jesus?



Do you also believe that no one who is not one of God’s elect will be saved but instead die in the second death?



Then why are you in a hell bent fury to try to save the unborn from having to end up dying in the second death?


Wouldn’t you agree that it would be more merciful to leave this in the power of the Sovereign God.


Being that those who are his elect will indeed be born to repent and believe anyhow but those who aren’t, will end up dying in the second death even after they are saved from dying in the womb and which is far worse then them dying in the womb also.
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Y

Yahweh will increase

Member
Just exactly what are you reporting me for Sir. For what I have said in this post has everything to do with the subject of God's election by grace, for you who believe in Calvinism on one hand and then try to legislate moral laws to stop babies from being aborted on the other, are showing a contradiction in what you profess to believe by doing so.

One thing is for certain, those who are of the truth, have nothing to fear from the lies of those who aren't but those who believe the lies of the Devil have everything to fear from those who believe in the truth.

However, no matter how much one tries to stifle and silence the truth, the truth will prevail against everyone who does in the end . Therefore your attempting to silence my post speaks volume to me about you.
 
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Beloved Daughter

Beloved Daughter

Active member
Yahweh will increase said:
Before I go into this, exactly what did God commission the church to do, legislated his moral laws to the unbelievers who have no power of the Holy Spirit to obey them and quite like the Scribes, Pharisees and hypocrites would have done?


Wasn’t it rather to go into all the world and preach the gospel unto all nations instead?


I personally don’t involve myself in voting anymore and the reason why, is because in the book of Daniel chapters 2 and 4, and also in Acts 1:6-8, we are told that the times and seasons for the rise and fall of Kings and Kingdoms is in God’s own power and not for us to decide.


A good reason for this, is that we really don’t know what we are doing and not being able to look into the hearts of the candidates, for if we did, we would never have shown God that we wanted a man like Donald J. Trump to be our President.


However, God indeed gave us what we wanted and along with it also the trouble that came with him, like the virus and the economic crash and the racial tensions and also the worse wild fires recorded in history and also damaging hurricanes and tornados as well.


This reminds me of when Israel wanted a King like the other nations and although God was displeased with them for this, he gave them what they wanted as well and also many problems to go along with their rebellions.


I believe that we have the same problem and yet we profess to believe in God’s Sovereignty and his election by grace.


However, if we had of left this in God’s business and power like the scriptures reveal that it belongs, surely we would have been much better off and God would have blessed us with much better leaders than what we have seen thus far.


Make no mistake about this however, for I am not talking about being apathetic here, but on the contrary I am talking about us diligently seeking and asking and trusting God in true faith for the best leaders possible to rule over us and while getting on with what business he gave unto us in preaching the gospel.


Also, I think we need to get it strait just exactly what Pro Life is from God’s perspective and viewpoint.


For it isn’t saving the unborn from death in the womb only to be born and then also die in the second death and which scripture reveals will happen to the greater majority of those who are born.


Now then, here is my question to all you who believe as I do in God’s Sovereign election by Grace.



So please tell me, how does the pro-life position align itself with God’s Sovereign election by grace?



Remember also, that God saved Moses and Jesus from death but both men’s parents were also believers and therefore obeying God by doing what they did.



Just go and search the book of Acts and you will not find the church ever being involved in any civil disobedience other than preaching the gospel message and teaching and baptizing those who believe.



Do you not believe that whoever God has determined to be his elect will indeed be born from the womb to repent and believe in Jesus and be born again by the Spirit?



Do you also believe that no one who is not one of God’s elect will be saved but instead die in the second death?



Then why are you in a hell bent fury to try to save the unborn from having to end up dying in the second death?


Wouldn’t you agree that it would be more merciful to leave this in the power of the Sovereign God.


Being that those who are his elect will indeed be born to repent and believe anyhow but those who aren’t, will end up dying in the second death even after they are saved from dying in the womb and which is far worse than them dying in the womb.
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I believe that you have a 'selective' version of what God said to do. Do you know which group of people in the U.S. and the UK succeeded in ending slavery? The abolitionists who were Christians accomplished this. The Holy Spirit instructs us on what we should and should not do.

The Bible says 'Thou shalt not murder'. That's reason enough to talk to people who want to murder children in the womb. In fact, my church has a big ministry that seeks to stop the murder, but also to reach souls for Christ. In the winter and early spring I spend my days doing just that at the abortion mills. There is no excuse for us to close our eyes at this horrendous evil.

 
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TomFL

Well-known member
Beloved Daughter said:
The Bible says 'Thou shalt not murder'. That's reason enough to talk to people who want to murder children in the womb. In fact, my church has a big ministry that seeks to stop the murder, but also to reach souls for Christ. In the winter and early spring I spend my days doing just that at the abortion mills. There is no excuse for us to close our eyes at this horrendous evil.

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Amen
 
Y

Yahweh will increase

Member
Beloved Daughter said:
I believe that you have a 'selective' version of what God said to do. Do you know which group of people in the U.S. and the UK succeeded in ending slavery? The abolitionists who were Christians accomplished this. The Holy Spirit instructs us on what we should and should not do.

The Bible says 'Thou shalt not murder'. That's reason enough to talk to people who want to murder children in the womb. In fact, my church has a big ministry that seeks to stop the murder, but also to reach souls for Christ. In the winter and early spring I spend my days doing just that at the abortion mills. There is no excuse for us to close our eyes at this horrendous evil.

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First off, who were the commandments of God actually written to however, was it to the unbelieving nations who had no knowledge or presence of God in their midst or was it to God's people who did and whom he had chosen from Abrahams descendants?



There is nothing wrong with telling people what God says about what is right and wrong in his law in the course of our preaching the gospel message.

However, that is far different than preaching the law to them and being drug off of abortion clinics and attempting to legislate God's moral laws to unbelievers when they have no power the Holy Spirit to obey and when that is not what Jesus commissioned his church to do anyhow.

I am not suggesting we close our eyes to anything but on the contrary, I suggest we wake up out of our sleep and see that what we have been doing has not done much because we are doing something that God never instructed us to do in his word.

The scriptures clearly reveals that when you preach law to a sinner, all that does is to stir up the sin even more that is within them.

Therefore, being there are more of them than there are true believers, you will be flogging a dead horse by trying to change the world this way and that is why we were told instead to catch fish instead of trying to clean the fish bowl.

Besides this, if we are indeed a true believers and belong to the number of Jesus' sheep, the true kingdom we belong to is not the USA, but it is the Kingdom of God and although we live in the USA, we are always going to be aliens in the USA and rightly so because the USA is not and never will be the Kingdom of God.

There is no doubt in my mind, that if the church had of more earnestly prayed and sought the Lord and left this all in his Almighty power and Sovereignty, then neither abortion or same sex marriages would have ever gained the foothold in this country that they did.


For instead of preaching the law to the unbelieving masses, we would have been showing them a living example of it expressed in our hearts and which would have brought great conviction on this country and to which they have never witnessed before but we like Israel have failed.

In other words, then they would not only have witnessed the law within us but they also would have felt the conviction of the law from us living in their midst and like God truly intended it to be instead.


By the way, if you believe in God's sovereign election by grace, how do you reconcile this position and belief with what you are doing in trying to stop abortion from being done by unbelievers?

Especially when considering the fact that just saving them from death in the womb is not saving them from the second death if the never end up coming to faith in Christ after you do this?
 
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Y

Yahweh will increase

Member
Beloved Daughter said:
I believe that you have a 'selective' version of what God said to do. Do you know which group of people in the U.S. and the UK succeeded in ending slavery? The abolitionists who were Christians accomplished this. The Holy Spirit instructs us on what we should and should not do.

The Bible says 'Thou shalt not murder'. That's reason enough to talk to people who want to murder children in the womb. In fact, my church has a big ministry that seeks to stop the murder, but also to reach souls for Christ. In the winter and early spring I spend my days doing just that at the abortion mills. There is no excuse for us to close our eyes at this horrendous evil.

Click to expand...
I didn't mention this before but I feel led by God to do so now, for the abolitionist didn't really end slavery, but rather it was the civil war that ended it instead.

Furthermore, the reasons and motives why many Abolitionists and the North wanted to end slavery, were not all pure either, for the real reason why the North didn't want the South to have slaves, was because they couldn't compete with the South in trade because the South didn't have to pay their workers like the North did.

Therefore, the real reason once again like usual, was the love of money and which the Bible tells us is the root of every evil deed, for it was the root reason for the South wanting to keep slaves to begin with and it was also the root reason why the North didn't want the South to have them as well.

It is also the root reason why the majority in the USA wanted Donald J. Trump as their President also and despite the fact that they witnessed first hand and right on the TV the fruit of his unethical heart by what continuously comes out of his mouth, "for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks".

If you don't think this matters to God, then read again what God told Samuel when he went to the house of Jesse to find the one God had chosen to be Israel's King, for he told him not to look at what the sons of Jesse appeared to be outwardly as meaning anything because man looks at this but God's looks upon the heart instead.

Furthermore, the churches supported and continue to support this man despite what they have learned from James chapter 3, that a man who cannot control his tongue, is also not able to control anything thing else either and which makes one quite dangerous in a position of being our President.

You also mentioned in your reply to me that the Holy Spirit tells the believers what to do or not to do, but the Holy Spirit isn't going to tell you to involve yourself in anything that the Holy Scriptures doesn't tell you to also.

The Holy Spirit will indeed lead and instruct us in how and where he wants us to do what the scripture tell us to do, but he will not add or take anything away from what is already instructed in the scriptures.

Therefore, if the spirit you are following does this, then you have a private interpretation of scripture and as per 2 Peter 1:20-21 and which according to what Peter went on to say in 2 Peter 2:1-2, you end up making yourself a false prophet if you teach this also.

Nowhere in the scriptures are we ever instructed to attempt to legislated God's laws to the world, for that is not the business of the church but rather to make disciples of the men and women of all nations.

Read the book of Acts again and you will not find even one disciple of Jesus who was lead by the Holy Spirit and who was ever being persecuted for trying to legislate God's morality to the people but rather only because they were doing what they were instructed to do in preaching and teaching God's truths in the name of Jesus.
 
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Beloved Daughter

Beloved Daughter

Active member
Yahweh will increase said:
I didn't mention this before but I feel led by God to do so now, for the abolitionist didn't really end slavery, but rather it was the civil war that ended it instead.

Furthermore, the reasons and motives why many Abolitionists and the North wanted to end slavery, were not all pure either, for the real reason why the North didn't want the South to have slaves, was because they couldn't compete with the South in trade because the South didn't have to pay their workers like the North did.

Therefore, the real reason once again like usual, was the love of money and which the Bible tells us is the root of every evil deed, for it was the root reason for the South wanting to keep slaves to begin with and it was also the root reason why the North didn't want the South to have them as well.

It is also the root reason why the majority in the USA wanted Donald J. Trump as their President also and despite the fact that they witnessed first hand and right on the TV the fruit of his unethical heart by what continuously comes out of his mouth, "for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks".

If you don't think this matters to God, then read again what God told Samuel when he went to the house of Jesse to find the one God had chosen to be Israel's King, for he told him not to look at what the sons of Jesse appeared to be outwardly as meaning anything because man looks at this but God's looks upon the heart instead.

Furthermore, the churches supported and continue to support this man despite what they have learned from James chapter 3, that a man who cannot control his tongue, is also not able to control anything thing else either and which makes one quite dangerous in a position of being our President.

You also mentioned in your reply to me that the Holy Spirit tells the believers what to do or not to do, but the Holy Spirit isn't going to tell you to involve yourself in anything that the Holy Scriptures doesn't tell you to also.

The Holy Spirit will indeed lead and instruct us in how and where he wants us to do what the scripture tell us to do, but he will not add or take anything away from what is already instructed in the scriptures.

Therefore, if the spirit you are following does this, then you have a private interpretation of scripture and as per 2 Peter 1:20-21 and which according to what Peter went on to say in 2 Peter 2:1-2, you end up making yourself a false prophet if you teach this also.

Nowhere in the scriptures are we ever instructed to attempt to legislated God's laws to the world, for that is not the business of the church but rather to make disciples of the men and women of all nations.

Read the book of Acts again and you will not find even one disciple of Jesus who was lead by the Holy Spirit and who was ever being persecuted for trying to legislate God's morality to the people but rather only because they were doing what they were instructed to do in preaching and teaching God's truths in the name of Jesus.
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I believe you have read the revisionist book of history.

Christians are led by the Holy Spirit. Abortion is a heinous crime and an affront to to God who made all men in His image.
 
Y

Yahweh will increase

Member
Beloved Daughter said:
I believe you have read the revisionist book of history.

Christians are led by the Holy Spirit. Abortion is a heinous crime and an affront to to God who made all men in His image.
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I think that you must have missed reading the OT then, for God told Israel to conquer the surrounding nations and kill men women and children also were also made in his image and in order that their sinful ways wouldn't have any influence on his people of Israel.

In fact, here is what is stated in Psalm 137

8 Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction,
happy is the one who repays you
according to what you have done to us.
9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks.

Of course in the NT we no longer do this because we are all sinners and now that God has made a remedy for sinners to be transformed through Jesus.

Nevertheless, the fact still remains that no fetus in the womb, will suffer the second death until they are born and come to that age to make that decision to sin and like all who are born will eventually do also.

Furthermore and as you also must know, Jesus very clearly told us that the majority will not repent and be saved.

Therefore let's say that you yourself save 2000 fetus's from dying in the womb and only 10 of those you save repent and get saved, how would you call this pro life?

For all of the others who you would save would be born and live and die without Christ and therefore have a worse fate then if they died in the womb and never were born at all.

What I see in this, is that the church has taken it upon themselves to play God and do his business for him instead of doing the business that he commissioned them to do.

For the business that he gave the church, was to go into all the nations and preach the gospel and teach and baptize all who believe in the name of Jesus Christ and which by the way, is the only way that any real true change can be made in this world anyway.

For I can assure you that neither Donald J. Trump nor the republican party or the democratic party are going to do any good doing this even if it looks like they are to the deceived, for no matter what they do, the USA will still never be the Kingdom of God on this earth period.

Also, God doesn't need you to do this in the first place, for if he has chosen any of these fetus's to be his elect and be born, they are going to be born no matter what and scripture pretty much shows us this with Moses and Jesus.

For both would have died if they weren't chosen by God and also, it was their own righteous parents who obeyed God to save them and they didn't do this for any of the children of the lost but only their own.

So here you are as a Calvinist and believing in predestination and God's chosen election by grace and yet you believe that you are here to save the fetus's of those who are unbelievers from being born to most likely grow up to reject God and Christ like the majority will.

It simply doesn't make any sense with what you claim to believe and also, as I have said already and will again, God has not given any of us instruction to do this.


Just read the book of Acts again and remember this also, for there were many unjust atrocities being done by Rome against human life in the early days of the faith of Jesus Christ and the church.

However, you will not read one incident in Acts where any believers attempted to change this or speak out against it or legislate God's moral laws to anyone and in fact not even in regards to believer who were unjustly arrested and beaten or put to death either.

Yet here you are a Calvinist trying to save the fetus's of the unbelievers as though God ever told any of us to do this and when he didn't and you know it also.


For as I said and will again, the Holy Spirit never tells us to do things that are not already instructed for us to do in the scriptures but instead will agree every time with the instruction of the scripture being they were inspired by the Holy Spirit to begin with.

I
 
Beloved Daughter

Beloved Daughter

Active member
Yahweh will increase said:
I think that you must have missed reading the OT then, for God told Israel to conquer the surrounding nations and kill men women and children also were also made in his image and in order that their sinful ways wouldn't have any influence on his people of Israel.

In fact, here is what is stated in Psalm 137

8 Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction,
happy is the one who repays you
according to what you have done to us.
9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks.

Of course in the NT we no longer do this because we are all sinners and now that God has made a remedy for sinners to be transformed through Jesus.

Nevertheless, the fact still remains that no fetus in the womb, will suffer the second death until they are born and come to that age to make that decision to sin and like all who are born will eventually do also.

Furthermore and as you also must know, Jesus very clearly told us that the majority will not repent and be saved.

Therefore let's say that you yourself save 2000 fetus's from dying in the womb and only 10 of those you save repent and get saved, how would you call this pro life?

For all of the others who you would save would be born and live and die without Christ and therefore have a worse fate then if they died in the womb and never were born at all.

What I see in this, is that the church has taken it upon themselves to play God and do his business for him instead of doing the business that he commissioned them to do.

For the business that he gave the church, was to go into all the nations and preach the gospel and teach and baptize all who believe in the name of Jesus Christ and which by the way, is the only way that any real true change can be made in this world anyway.

For I can assure you that neither Donald J. Trump nor the republican party or the democratic party are going to do any good doing this even if it looks like they are to the deceived, for no matter what they do, the USA will still never be the Kingdom of God on this earth period.

Also, God doesn't need you to do this in the first place, for if he has chosen any of these fetus's to be his elect and be born, they are going to be born no matter what and scripture pretty much shows us this with Moses and Jesus.

For both would have died if they weren't chosen by God and also, it was their own righteous parents who obeyed God to save them and they didn't do this for any of the children of the lost but only their own.

So here you are as a Calvinist and believing in predestination and God's chosen election by grace and yet you believe that you are here to save the fetus's of those who are unbelievers from being born to most likely grow up to reject God and Christ like the majority will.

It simply doesn't make any sense with what you claim to believe and also, as I have said already and will again, God has not given any of us instruction to do this.


Just read the book of Acts again and remember this also, for there were many unjust atrocities being done by Rome against human life in the early days of the faith of Jesus Christ and the church.

However, you will not read one incident in Acts where any believers attempted to change this or speak out against it or legislate God's moral laws to anyone and in fact not even in regards to believer who were unjustly arrested and beaten or put to death either.

Yet here you are a Calvinist trying to save the fetus's of the unbelievers as though God ever told any of us to do this and when he didn't and you know it also.


For as I said and will again, the Holy Spirit never tells us to do things that are not already instructed for us to do in the scriptures but instead will agree every time with the instruction of the scripture being they were inspired by the Holy Spirit to begin with.

I
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It seems that you don't know, or possibly can't understand the Bible.

EndAbortionNow https://endabortionnow.com/ describes the coalition of churches all over America.







Calvinism has zilch to do with abortion. ​

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Matthew 5-7​

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English Standard Version​

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5 Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down, his disciples came to him.
2 And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7 “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
10 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
13 “You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet.
14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire. 23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. 26 Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.


The Bible discusses the murder of anyone, let alone a child in the womb.
 
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Y

Yahweh will increase

Member
Beloved Daughter said:
It seems that you don't know, or possibly can't understand the Bible.

EndAbortionNow https://endabortionnow.com/ describes the coalition of churches all over America.







Calvinism has zilch to do with abortion. ​

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Matthew 5-7​

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English Standard Version​

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5 Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down, his disciples came to him.
2 And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7 “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
10 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
13 “You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet.
14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire. 23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. 26 Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.


The Bible discusses the murder of anyone, let alone a child in the womb.
Click to expand...
I understand the Bible very well and it is really you that do not understand it very well and this is evident by the scriptures you posted above to try and once again justify what you are doing and what the Bible never tells you to do.

For none of those scriptures can be misinterpreted and misrepresented to be telling you that you are here to save the fetus's of the lost or to legislate God's morality to unbelievers.

When Jesus speaks of our being persecuted for righteousness sake, it means because of the righteousness within us and not because we preach the law to others.

In other words, it is persecution because they see the hope of righteousness within us and the fact that they don't measure up to it and they know it, that they are persecuting us and not because we beat them up with the law of God verbally.

Indeed Jesus didn't come to abolish the law, for he fulfilled it himself by his own life lived in obedience to it and for all believers that it might also be fulfilled within them likewise and written within their hearts by the Holy Spirit and also witnessed and viewed this way by the lost.

Therefore the way the law is to be observed from you by the lost, is not in your attempt to beat them over the head with it verbally or for you to attempt to legislate it on paper in the law.

Instead it is to be observed by the lost in the more powerful way by the conviction of the Holy Spirit coming from your very heart and life while you instead preach the good news of the gospel to them.

Go read how it was done with the Gentile nations from Paul in the book of Acts, for Paul didn't preach the law to anyone but instead he preached the gospel message, for that is what will save and change this world and not the preaching of the law.


By the way, I see that you like to quote Jesus' words to Israel while the law was still in force and the covenant of God's grace in the NT in Christ's blood hadn't been made and confirmed yet.

However when doing this, you end up misinterpreting and misrepresenting the scriptures, for when Jesus said this, both himself and the people were still under the law of Moses because he had not yet fulfilled it totally in his life and then died for our sins on the cross.

You made the statement, "what does abortion have to do with Calvinsim" and it shouldn't if you are truly allowing the Sovereign God to be the Sovereign God over this issue instead of playing God yourself over it and being you claim that God is sovereign over his own plan of salvation and not man.

Now concerning the times and seasons and what this means both in Daniel 2 and Daniel 4 and also from what Jesus said in Acts 1:6-8.

The times and seasons are referring to when God sets up kings and kingdoms or removes them and Jesus very clearly told us that this was in God's power and not ours and so did Daniel in the following verses.

Acts 1:6-8

New International Version

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6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”
7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”


Daniel 2:19 Then Daniel praised the God of heaven 20 and said:

“Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever;
wisdom and power are his.
21 He changes times and seasons;
he deposes kings and raises up others.


Daniel 4:17 “‘The decision is announced by messengers, the holy ones declare the verdict, so that the living may know that the Most High is sovereign over all kingdoms on earth and gives them to anyone he wishes and sets over them the lowliest of people.’


Daniel 4:34
His (Yahweh's) dominion is an eternal dominion;
his kingdom endures from generation to generation.
35 All the peoples of the earth
are regarded as nothing.
He does as he pleases
with the powers of heaven
and the peoples of the earth.
No one can hold back his hand
or say to him: “What have you done?”


Therefore, the arrogant apostate churches might think that they are given control over this, but they aren't and soon enough they will learn their lesson the hard way because they are not seeking to hear what he has to say about this but doing instead what they think is right.

For God will often give us what we want in order to correct us by it and a good example of this is seen when Israel wanted a king like the other nations had because the didn't want God to be their King and have his sovereignty over what was best for them.

Therefore God gave them what they wanted along with the troubles that would come with it and that he warned them about.

The apostate church of our time did the same thing by voting for Trump and then God gave them what they wanted and took apart everything that Trump in his arrogance supposed to do for America and swiftly also through allowing this virus to take it all down,

We should have learned our lesson by this, however it is obvious that we haven't and therefore we will end up receiving the justice from God that is due for our not seeking to hear his his voice concerning it.

For we can pray until we are blue in the face from praying but if in our praying we have already decided what is best for us anyhow, our prayers will end up becoming our correction sent from God.

This already happened the first time we voted for Trump with the scourge that he brought upon us through this virus and God forbid that we repeat the same mistake again, for it is obvious that we don't know what we are doing with regard to this and like usual.
 
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Y

Yahweh will increase

Member
Beloved Daughter said:
It seems that you don't know, or possibly can't understand the Bible.

EndAbortionNow https://endabortionnow.com/ describes the coalition of churches all over America.







Calvinism has zilch to do with abortion. ​

​

​

Matthew 5-7​

​

English Standard Version​

​

​

5 Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down, his disciples came to him.
2 And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7 “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
10 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
13 “You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet.
14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire. 23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. 26 Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.


The Bible discusses the murder of anyone, let alone a child in the womb.
Click to expand...
Let me include this to what I have already posted in my last post.

When the law says, thou shalt not kill, it is speaking to the one who is hearing it spoken and for them personally to obey.

It is not telling you to be responsible for what someone else is doing or to attempt to be their police concerning it either.

Furthermore, I have already told you that you should read the book of Acts and tell me where anything like what you are doing was ever practiced by the early church and you haven't been able to and wont be able to either.

For it never was and life doesn't only consist of what hasn't been born yet from the womb either and there were many persons under the authority of the Roman Empire that were being falsely accused to death and you never see the early church doing anything other than praying about it and even concerning the saints as well.

Read your Bible, for when Peter was arrested and imprisoned for the sake of the gospel, the church knew who to turn to to set Peter free from possibly even death and it wasn't themselves, but rather the Sovereign Almighty God in the name of Jesus Christ.

Unfortunately however, today's church being in apostasy from the truth are totally blind to these things and therefore try to produce these things through their own flesh and power instead..

Therefore I would recommend that they read and follow the instructions given by Jesus unto the church of Laodicea in Revelation 3 and obey them.

Remember these words from Jesus below.

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Before I leave, notice how Jesus defines lawlessness in the above and mediate on that for a while.
 
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