God 'accepts decisions of man'?

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
As your theologians also do.
Chuckle!!!! SO much for "Theologians".

THE SAFETY, however, is that:
Jas 1:5
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Jas 1:6
But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jas 1:7
For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
Jas 1:8
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Catholics have a REAL problem approacing the Holy Spirit in a SINGLE-MINDED fashion, since they've been propagandized to think that their "MAGISTERIUM" has the answers. And when the SCRIPTURES LEAD AWAY from the Catholic dogma, and toward the TRUTH, there's a problem.
 

dingoling.

Well-known member
Misfit said:
They are indeed authoritative. The Church which is made up of real persons has the authority to decide things, and such authority was given to them by God Himself, incarnated upon this earth. Once decided, God will accept these decisions wholeheartedly.


Where is officially this taught by the Catholic church? Since when does man get to decide 'things' so that 'God can accept' it?

This is literally blasphemy, putting the 'decisions' of man over the Sovereign will of God.

God doesn't 'accept decisions of man', man accepts decisions of God.
The church is guided by the Holy Spirit. What the church decides on is from the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Pope is given the grace of infallibly to insure that what the church teaches is correct.
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member

leonard03782

Well-known member
The church is guided by the Holy Spirit. What the church decides on is from the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Pope is given the grace of infallibly to insure that what the church teaches is correct.
I would have agree with CES that this would be funny if it wasn't so sad. Then again, perhaps he is laughing at the absurdity of this statement, which I believe is the case.
 

dingoling.

Well-known member
The Holy Spirit indwells INDIVIDUALS, not religious organizations


Not even remotely true. That’s what you’ve been brainwashed into believing


More brainwashed nonsense.
Yes, the Holy Spirit indwells individual Christians but we all have different gifts.
 

Misfit

Well-known member
The Holy Spirit indwells INDIVIDUALS, not religious organizations
You folks keep telling us that "the Church" is made up of individuals. Okay, I agree with you. The Catholic Church is made up of individual people. Since the Holy Spirit indwells in "individuals" it is only right to say that the Holy Spirit indwells within the Catholic Church. I knew at some point you and I would be in agreement.
 

Misfit

Well-known member
Catholics have a REAL problem approacing the Holy Spirit in a SINGLE-MINDED fashion,
A person can be either a "Baptist' or a "Reformed Baptist" (Calvinist), so which one is getting the truth of the Holy Spirit wrong when they both claim the Holy Spirit is leading them?

since they've been propagandized to think that their "MAGISTERIUM" has the answers.
No propaganda friend, that is just the way we see it. Everyone coming up with their own take on things means 25K plus non-orthodox believing denominations. That is nothing to be proud about.
And when the SCRIPTURES LEAD AWAY from the Catholic dogma, and toward the TRUTH, there's a problem.
It is only your opinion that the Scriptures lead away from Catholic dogmas. We have yet to split into 25 thousand plus denominations.
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
You folks keep telling us that "the Church" is made up of individuals. Okay, I agree with you. The Catholic Church is made up of individual people. Since the Holy Spirit indwells in "individuals" it is only right to say that the Holy Spirit indwells within the Catholic Church. I knew at some point you and I would be in agreement.

The Holy Spirit indwells ALL those born from above regardless of what “church” building they sit in.
Was the HS indwelling all your evil popes and pedo priests?
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
A person can be either a "Baptist' or a "Reformed Baptist" (Calvinist), so which one is getting the truth of the Holy Spirit wrong when they both claim the Holy Spirit is leading them?
Ask yourself that about all the Catholics that disagree with each other….
No propaganda friend, that is just the way we see it. Everyone coming up with their own take on things

Said the dude that came up with his own take on binding and loosing. Your own church doesn’t teach what you said.
means 25K plus non-orthodox believing denominations. That is nothing to be proud about.
Yet it is God that places people in the body AS HE chooses.

But now God has arranged the parts, each one of them in the body, just as He desired.
It is only your opinion that the Scriptures lead away from Catholic dogmas. We have yet to split into 25 thousand plus denominations.
There aren’t 25k plus denominations. That’s been debunked time and time again.

 
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Misfit

Well-known member
Ask yourself that about all the Catholics that disagree with each other….
All agree on the basics of Catholic teachings. Some are not as well catechized as others I will agree, but we are not going out and starting new churches over these things.
Said the dude that came up with his own take on binding and loosing. Your own church doesn’t teach what you said.
The Church teaches the Apostolic Succession, that all the clergy have received ordination right down from one of the Apostles. Along with that, the Church has the authority from Jesus Christ to "bind and loose". It has real power and real authority.

Yet it is God that places people in the body AS HE chooses.
No, it is people disagreeing with each other about doctrines and dogmas and off they go, using their free will to start a new religious organization.

But now God has arranged the parts, each one of them in the body, just as He desired.
No, people themselves jumbling all up in different places. This is an abomination before the Lord who stresses the unity of believers.

There aren’t 25k plus denominations. That’s been debunked time and time again.
Probably a lot more. Your "evidence" is not much of an unbiased source now, is it?

Now let me list a few. 1. The Temple of God. 2. The Temple of God in Christ. 3. Temple Tabernacle of God. 4. Cathedral of Love. 5. First Baptist Church. 6. Holiness Baptist Church. 7. Main Street Baptist Church. 8. Church of Jesus Christ. 9.Holiness Christ Church. 10. Church of Christ. 11. Jehovah's Witnesses. 12 Seventh Day Adventist Church. And on and on I could go, filling up this page and a hundred others, but hopefully you get the picture.
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
All agree on the basics of Catholic teachings.

Not even remotely true.
Some are not as well catechized as others I will agree,

No, we don't agree because that's not what I said.
The Church teaches the Apostolic Succession,

So what.
that all the clergy have received ordination right down from one of the Apostles.

So what.
Along with that, the Church has the authority from Jesus Christ to "bind and loose". It has real power and real authority.

The church, the ACTUAL church, has that authority....it's not confined to your apostate church.

You don't even understand what it means.

Yes.....or are you going to deny Scripture?

But now God has arranged the parts, each one of them in the body, just as He desired.

it is people disagreeing with each other about doctrines and dogmas and off they go, using their free will to start a new religious organization.

No, disagreeing with your apostate church is what drives people to churches that actually preach God's word and adhere to it.
No, people themselves jumbling all up in different places.

You just denied Scripture...par for the course.
This is an abomination before the Lord who stresses the unity of believers.

All are united in Christ, regardless of what 'church' building they sit in on Sunday. A fact lost on Catholics.

Your own church isn't even unified in it's beliefs.
Probably a lot more.

Already debunked your nonsense.
Your "evidence" is not much of an unbiased source now, is it?

Then refute it. I dare you to.
 

Lastdaysbeliever

Well-known member
The church is guided by the Holy Spirit.

I have to disagree. My question is, is the RCC guided by the Holy Spirit or is it more accurately guided by established "ecclesiastical authorities" who proclaim to speak for God? Irrespective of whether what they are saying is Biblical or not. You know, Mariology, eucharist, absolution, prayer to dead saints, rosary, etc.

What the church decides on is from the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

No. It's not. See comment above.

The Pope is given the grace of infallibly to insure that what the church teaches is correct.

No. He's not. See first comment above.
 

Misfit

Well-known member
Then refute it. I dare you to.
Okay, I was wrong. It's not 25k like I said, it's more like 20k or according to the UN 23k. See the what I posted and you can either accept or reject it.

"According to the Dictionary of Christianity in America [Protestant] (Downers Grove, IL: Intervarsity Press, 1990): "As of 1980 David B. Barrett identified 20,800 Christian denominations worldwide . . ." ("Denominationalism," page 351). I have this book, so I have seen this with my own eyes. Barrett "classified them into seven major blocs and 156 ecclesiastical traditions." This is from the Oxford World Christian Encyclopedia (1982) of which he is the editor. Also, according to the United Nations statistics there were over 23,000 competing and often contradictory denominations worldwide (World Census of Religious Activities [U.N. Information Center, NY, 1989]). This was cited in Frank Schaeffer's book Dancing Alone (Brookline, MA: Holy Cross Press, 1994), page 4. Schaeffer is Orthodox. The 1999 Encyclopedia of Christianity has this to say: "In 1985 David Barrett could count 22,150 distinct denominations worldwide." (edited by E. Fahlbusch, et al., Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1999, vol. 1, p. 800, s.v. "Denomination"). Barrett is the statistical editor. Again citing the Oxford World Christian Encyclopedia (1982): ". . . a projected 22,190 by 1985 . . . The present net increase is 270 denominations each year (five new ones a week)." (pages 15-18)
 

Misfit

Well-known member
I have to disagree. My question is, is the RCC guided by the Holy Spirit or is it more accurately guided by established "ecclesiastical authorities" who proclaim to speak for God? Irrespective of whether what they are saying is Biblical or not. You know, Mariology, eucharist, absolution, prayer to dead saints, rosary, etc.



No. It's not. See comment above.



No. He's not. See first comment above.
Something is not quite right here. If I click on my name in your first quote supposedly from me, the following is what comes up.

"So who is denying God's Word as the ultimate authority now? …17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, regard him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. 18Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Matt 18:17-18".

"So here we have Jesus saying to the Apostles that their decisions will be accepted by God. This seems pretty clear to me".

Could you give me a post number so I can gauge the accuracy of my words? Thank you.
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
Okay, I was wrong. It's not 25k like I said, it's more like 20k or according to the UN 23k. See the what I posted and you can either accept or reject it.

"According to the Dictionary of Christianity in America [Protestant] (Downers Grove, IL: Intervarsity Press, 1990): "As of 1980 David B. Barrett identified 20,800 Christian denominations worldwide . . ." ("Denominationalism," page 351). I have this book, so I have seen this with my own eyes. Barrett "classified them into seven major blocs and 156 ecclesiastical traditions." This is from the Oxford World Christian Encyclopedia (1982) of which he is the editor. Also, according to the United Nations statistics there were over 23,000 competing and often contradictory denominations worldwide (World Census of Religious Activities [U.N. Information Center, NY, 1989]). This was cited in Frank Schaeffer's book Dancing Alone (Brookline, MA: Holy Cross Press, 1994), page 4. Schaeffer is Orthodox. The 1999 Encyclopedia of Christianity has this to say: "In 1985 David Barrett could count 22,150 distinct denominations worldwide." (edited by E. Fahlbusch, et al., Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1999, vol. 1, p. 800, s.v. "Denomination"). Barrett is the statistical editor. Again citing the Oxford World Christian Encyclopedia (1982): ". . . a projected 22,190 by 1985 . . . The present net increase is 270 denominations each year (five new ones a week)." (pages 15-18)

Nope....the link I gave debunked Barretts nonsense.....try reading it this time...

In an article entitled "30,000 Protestant Denominations?", Evangelical apologist Eric Svendsen exposes the falsehood of this fabrication. Briefly:​

  • Svendsen shows that the source of this figure is the World Christian Encyclopedia (David A. Barrett; Oxford University Press, 1982).​
  • Barrett cites a figure of 20,780 denominations. However not all of them are Protestants. According to Barrett, Protestants account for 8,196 (and incidentally, Roman Catholics account for 223).
  • However, even this figure of eight thousand Protestant denominations is misleading, for Barrett defines "distinct denominations" as any group that might have a slightly different emphasis than another group. The distinction is made on the basis of jurisdiction, rather than differing beliefs and practices.
  • Barrett breaks down the Protestant bloc into twenty-one major "traditions" which are much closer to what we usually mean by the word "denominations." It is interesting that Roman Catholics are subdivided into sixteen such "traditions."​
  • Svendsen concludes, "In short, Roman Catholic apologists have hurriedly, carelessly - and, as a result, irresponsibly - glanced at Barrett's work, found a large number (22,189), and arrived at all sorts of absurdities that Barrett never concluded."

The Lie of 30000 Protestant Denominations
 

Lastdaysbeliever

Well-known member
Something is not quite right here. If I click on my name in your first quote supposedly from me, the following is what comes up.

"So who is denying God's Word as the ultimate authority now? …17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, regard him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. 18Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Matt 18:17-18".

"So here we have Jesus saying to the Apostles that their decisions will be accepted by God. This seems pretty clear to me".

Could you give me a post number so I can gauge the accuracy of my words? Thank you.

You're right. It's from Post #22, of which I quoted, and should be attributed to dingoling. It's too late to edit, unfortunately. Not sure if I did something wrong or if it's a glitch.
 
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Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
A person can be either a "Baptist' or a "Reformed Baptist" (Calvinist), so which one is getting the truth of the Holy Spirit wrong when they both claim the Holy Spirit is leading them?
Maybe neither - maybe both depending on the issue. Denominations are Human organizational inventions and there are many denominations (which aren't called "denominations") in Catholicism.
No propaganda friend, that is just the way we see it.
As you've been trained to - Catachism / Magisterium / Tradition first, and everything else second.
Everyone coming up with their own take on things means 25K plus non-orthodox believing denominations. That is nothing to be proud about.
But it IS the HUMAN WAY of handling "Religion". Look at the MESS you've got on your hands with the present "Pope" thing.
It is only your opinion that the Scriptures lead away from Catholic dogmas.
What does a Catholic even KNOW about the "Scriptures"?????
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Hey, I'm not a Catholic Theologian, but even I can "prove" the Bible says (1) there is no God, and (2) women won't be in Heaven, and (3) the keys Jesus gave to Peter were to His Honda. 😉

Then, if ya cain't find it in the Bible, there's always the myste-e-erious Oral Tradition!

--Rich
And here I though Peter drove a Chevy, like me.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
I have to disagree. My question is, is the RCC guided by the Holy Spirit or is it more accurately guided by established "ecclesiastical authorities" who proclaim to speak for God? Irrespective of whether what they are saying is Biblical or not. You know, Mariology, eucharist, absolution, prayer to dead saints, rosary, etc.



No. It's not. See comment above.



No. He's not. See first comment above.
The Church is guided by the Holy Spirit.
 
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