LOL, except he claimed to see God, claimed to find buried treasure and translated the most correct book on earth look a a stone in his hat...and had over 30 wives...among many other extraordinary things, so yes despite those items, we are all pretty much the same.
God complex, and belief Joseph Smith is a God.
- Thread starter Markk
- Start date
Richard7
Well-known member
Well we disagree, but JS did not threaten his wife.... try using that in a court of law and they will most likely tell you that there is no case.
Magdalena
Well-known member
Oh he’ll be tried for it. By a much higher court.
Richard7
Well-known member
Won't we all, Magdalena.
Richard7
Well-known member
He claimed to have had a vision, its called the First Vision Markk.... he never found any treasure except for being shown were the Gold Plates, Urim and Thummim, etc were buried. You bought into the seer stone myth, not me.
Magdalena
Well-known member
He claimed to have had a vision… he didn’t actually have one. His story kept changing.
He claimed to find buried treasure… he didn’t actually find any.
He claimed to have seer stones, which your church now owns… they’re not actually seer stones, they’re just stones he found in a well while searching for treasure, which he didn’t actually find.
He claimed God told him to take additional wives against his will… he was actually already chasing other women and young girls.
He claimed God told him to start a bank… it was actually illegal and he lost everyone’s money.
He claimed God told him to sell the copyright to the Book of Mormon in a certain city… nothing actually happened.
He claimed Christ would return within a certain number of years… it didn’t actually happen.
He claimed to be a prophet who spoke for God… none of his prophecies actually came true.
LOL...no I personally believe he wrote the Book of Mormon out of his head. And by putting the head in the hat helped him focus, because he had ADHD or other issues with focusing, which if true, explains a lot, like almost always needing a scribe.
The church and just about every other Mormon that cares to learn and read on the subject now buys into it, including the Prophet and the 14 others. But focus...they buy into it because it is what the majority firsthand accounts relate...it is what happened in regard to the mechanics.
Bushman is more of a prophet than the LDS prophets, when he said that the old narrative cannot be sustained...and that the church will upset the grandmas, so they do not sacrifice the grandkids.
I am not sure there is enough bandwidth to complete your list...
I will add one big one..."He Claimed God told him it was necessary to have multiple wives for a man to not be damned. "
Magdalena
Well-known member
You’re right. It’s a very long list.
That is a big one. Another…
He claimed that God was once a human living on an earth who worked his way up a ladder to godhood, and that’s something all men should do… God said He actually has always been God. The only god there ever has been or ever will be.
After he taught God was a spirit, and that Jesus was the very eternal Father.
Magdalena
Well-known member
He couldn’t keep his stories straight… about anything.
Richard7
Well-known member
What did not change is that he had a vision!
Quote me a first hand witness the above is true. Some one who actually taked with him and knew him personally.
Did he ever call it a seer stone and if so please quote your first hand account...
Aganist his will and yet was already chasing other women... chuckle, that sounds like double speak...
No, God never told him to start a bank... again where is your souce?
Nope!
The Know
Sometime in early 1830 (probably between January and early March), as the Book of Mormon was at press, Joseph Smith received a revelation instructing him to secure the copyright for the Book of Mormon in Canada. “Like the American copyright [Joseph] Smith had obtained in June 1829, a Canadian copyright would help protect the Book of Mormon from those who sought to illegally reprint it in the British dominion of Canada.”1 The revelation, preserved in what is called “A Book of Commandments & Revelations” (or Revelation Book 1),2 instructed Oliver Cowdery, Joseph Knight Sr., Hiram Page, and Josiah Stowell to “be diligent in securing the copyright of my work [the Book of Mormon] upon all the face of the earth.” This they were told to do “with an eye single to [God’s] glory, that it may be the means of bringing souls unto salvation.” To accomplish this, the Lord instructed these men to travel to Kingston, Ontario, Canada opposite of Palmyra across Lake Ontario. There the Lord said he would “grant unto [his] servant [Joseph Smith] a privilege that he may sell a copyright.” The success of the mission, the Lord made clear, was contingent upon certain factors, including “if the people harden not their hearts against the enticing of my spirit and my word. For behold, it lieth in themselves to their condemnation or to their salvation.”The purpose for securing and selling a copyright of the Book of Mormon in Canada—rather than the copyright (a subtle but important legal distinction)—was to ensure that if the book were to be republished outside the United States, Joseph Smith, as the legally designated “author and proprietor,”4 would retain the legal intellectual property in the book and receive appropriate monetary compensation from sales.5 “Because a popular book [in the early nineteenth century] was usually reprinted in other countries without authorization at any rate in absence of international copyright laws,” selling a copyright to the Book of Mormon for the four provinces of Canada would have “hastened the printing and distribution of the book in that part of the British Empire.”
Book of Mormon Central.
How do you know.
At least twice, as is recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants, Joseph saw the face of the Son of Man
But there are other aspects of fulfillment that should also be considered. We do not know when it was that the Prophet earnestly prayed to know the time of the Lord's coming. The context, (verse 13), shows that it may have taken place in 1832 or earlier. At least twice, as is recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants, Joseph saw the face of the Son of Man. D&C 76:20-24 and D&C 110:2-10 both record appearances of the Lord Jesus Christ, either of which may constitute fulfillment of the Lord's prophetic promise. He may also have seen the Lord's face at the time of his death in 1844, as he pondered in D&C 130:16.Joseph made reference to the incident on at least two other occasions, and indicated that his belief was not that the Lord would come by the time of his 85th birthday, but rather that the Lord would not come before that time, which of course was a correct prophecy.
In the History of the Church:
Again, Joseph Smith doesn't say the Lord will come then, but that He will not come before that time. The return to his age 85 shows that all these remarks derive from the same interpretation of his somewhat opaque revelation from the Lord, who seems determined to tell his curious prophet nothing further.
FairMormon
Which ones other then those above which I have proven you know nothing about.
Richard7
Well-known member
Chuckle, where? you're great at opinions Markk...
Richard7
Well-known member
It does not explain the complextity of the Book of Mormon and the supposed author JS who had little to know education... also that he completed it in less than 90 days... chuckle.
Not true, mostly the seond and third hand accounts agree and yet both JS and Oliver Cowdrey disagree, the two who knew most about the means of translation... we have debated this and I have asked over and over for only first hand accounts...
Yep, that's our man, a stake president once, a bishop and then became a sealer in the temple... he has his progressive New Mormonism and is pushing it diligently as we speak and casuin all sorts of faith crisis... Good man who is listneing to the wrong spirit.
Richard7
Well-known member
Where?
In the BoM, and school of the prophets.
What complexity...that is a talking point, what complexity?
HUH? read what I wrote again. I said the 15 current GA teach it along with most LDS that care to know.
Ralf, The GA agree with the history. FAIR, NMI, current institute manuals, the correct History Book of the LDS church...all teach Joseph used a Seer stone...Are these all listing to the wrong spirit?
... "Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines—Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter. Therefore, prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same. For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory... ." Section 132 verses 1-4
So, in summary, we may say that:
- Joseph found a seer stone in 1822 and may have used it to look for treasure.
- Many people believed that he could see things in the stone. There are testimonials that suggest that he could see things in the stone yet no record that he could find any treasure.
- His motives, cosmological influences, and extent of involvement for early treasure seeking (1822-25) are still in debate. His motives for his later treasure seeking (1825-26) are to help with finances of his family.
- Beginning in 1823, after the claimed appearance of the angel Moroni, Joseph oriented himself away from treasure seeking.
- His scriptural and revelatory productions were largely based in Biblical Christianity. Folk magic was a peripheral ingredient to his work (and there is even explicit condemnation of magic in those scriptural productions [Alma 1:32; 3 Nephi 21:16; Mormon 1:19; 2:10; Doctrine and Covenants 63:17; Doctrine and Covenants 76:103)
Summary: Joseph Smith used the Nephite Interpreters as well as his own seer stone (both of which were later referred to as "Urim and Thummim") to translate the Book of Mormon.
FairMormon
Richard7
Well-known member
Where? that is such a cop-out, give us the chapter, verse and page number ....or copy and paste the quote, or verses.