God complex, and belief Joseph Smith is a God.

Markk

Super Member
Right after you explain how Judas made his way into the 12 disciples of Jesus Christ.

Without even realizing it the author of the post above compared Joseph Smith to Jesus (God). Joseph is a God to the LDS people, even if passively or indirectly, as he did above. As a Mormon, were were taught at an early age to basically worship Joseph. We sign songs about him and taught with pictures of him rendered in a “holy” way. It is in the ”DNA” of every TBM to put Joseph on the same level as their HF and Christ, again as he did here.

These is a key component to their God complex. The church drills this in the mind of its members that Joseph is a God, again even if indirectly. There are teaching from past GA’s that he is a God.

I asked him a question… “Then explain how a counterfeiter, probably a murderer, was an associate with JS and even an appointed Colonel in the Nauvoo legion under General Smith? Just think of Joseph’s friends and associates…”

Without thinking it out, without even realizing it, he compared Joseph with Jesus Christ…which again obviously part of the delusional thinking forced on the membership.

“Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet…When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go” (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408).
 
Without even realizing it the author of the post above compared Joseph Smith to Jesus (God). Joseph is a God to the LDS people, even if passively or indirectly, as he did above. As a Mormon, were were taught at an early age to basically worship Joseph. We sign songs about him and taught with pictures of him rendered in a “holy” way. It is in the ”DNA” of every TBM to put Joseph on the same level as their HF and Christ, again as he did here.

These is a key component to their God complex. The church drills this in the mind of its members that Joseph is a God, again even if indirectly. There are teaching from past GA’s that he is a God.

I asked him a question… “Then explain how a counterfeiter, probably a murderer, was an associate with JS and even an appointed Colonel in the Nauvoo legion under General Smith? Just think of Joseph’s friends and associates…”

Without thinking it out, without even realizing it, he compared Joseph with Jesus Christ…which again obviously part of the delusional thinking forced on the membership.

“Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet…When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go” (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408).
Wow! that was a great sermon Markk! I was most impressed with your knowledge that you took away with you when you left the church.
I can see why you think the way you do now.... you and I most likely heard and saw things differently when we were young and had minds full of mush.... wherein I kept the light and knowledge I received and you continued listening to the mush that you yourself instilled in your mind. Of course I never put JS on the same level as Christ and even up to today with all the "New Mormonism" being taught by our Progressive teachers and Professors, my belief in our traditional teaching has not changed... you're losing the battle good buddy for reasons of holding on to every anti or enemy of the church.... I bet you watch a lot of John Dehlin and Bill Reel... chuckle.
 
Without even realizing it the author of the post above compared Joseph Smith to Jesus (God). Joseph is a God to the LDS people, even if passively or indirectly, as he did above. As a Mormon, were were taught at an early age to basically worship Joseph. We sign songs about him and taught with pictures of him rendered in a “holy” way. It is in the ”DNA” of every TBM to put Joseph on the same level as their HF and Christ, again as he did here.

These is a key component to their God complex. The church drills this in the mind of its members that Joseph is a God, again even if indirectly. There are teaching from past GA’s that he is a God.

I asked him a question… “Then explain how a counterfeiter, probably a murderer, was an associate with JS and even an appointed Colonel in the Nauvoo legion under General Smith? Just think of Joseph’s friends and associates…”

Without thinking it out, without even realizing it, he compared Joseph with Jesus Christ…which again obviously part of the delusional thinking forced on the membership.

“Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet…When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go” (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408).
This is an absolute falsehood. You should be ashamed of this. What a complete mischaracterization!

Please find ANY quote on the church website Joseph Smith is to be regarded as a God. You cannot prove any of this directly or indirectly.

Interestingly enough, he made that statement on May 26th, 1844. He died June 27th, a month later.

"The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place..." Official Declaration 1
 
Without even realizing it the author of the post above compared Joseph Smith to Jesus (God). Joseph is a God to the LDS people, even if passively or indirectly, as he did above. As a Mormon, were were taught at an early age to basically worship Joseph. We sign songs about him and taught with pictures of him rendered in a “holy” way. It is in the ”DNA” of every TBM to put Joseph on the same level as their HF and Christ, again as he did here.

These is a key component to their God complex. The church drills this in the mind of its members that Joseph is a God, again even if indirectly. There are teaching from past GA’s that he is a God.

I asked him a question… “Then explain how a counterfeiter, probably a murderer, was an associate with JS and even an appointed Colonel in the Nauvoo legion under General Smith? Just think of Joseph’s friends and associates…”

Without thinking it out, without even realizing it, he compared Joseph with Jesus Christ…which again obviously part of the delusional thinking forced on the membership.

“Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet…When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go” (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408).
One of their "hymns (more like, "hims") has the line that he "mingles with gods." What nonsense!
 
This is an absolute falsehood. You should be ashamed of this. What a complete mischaracterization!

Please find ANY quote on the church website Joseph Smith is to be regarded as a God. You cannot prove any of this directly or indirectly.

Interestingly enough, he made that statement on May 26th, 1844. He died June 27th, a month later.

"The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place..." Official Declaration 1
Aaron, you only bolded part of what I wrote…I also wrote even if “passively and indirectly?” My first ”proof” is what DB actually wrote. He “indirectly” and I will add unwittingly, compared Joseph to Jesus. You can certainly disagree with DB’s question too me, but you can’t deny what he wrote.

1st, is LDS .org the benchmark for all things Mormon?

2nd, Are all official declarations official church doctrine?

3rd…What is the official “cut off date” in regards to the date of his death, that one can write off what he teaches as nonsense?


Bottom line:

“God made Aaron to be the mouth piece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be god to you in His stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me; and if you don't like it, you must lump it. (History of the Church, vol. 6, pp. 319-20)”

Also i linked this from LDS .org….go there, type in “lump it”…LDS .org will like you to the JS papers, and this hand written statement that God will make Joseph a god…


I can give yo more Aaron if you like…but DB showed his true colors here and we both know you ar win the vast minority of members…most passively worship JS, and many like I did growing up, have his picture in our homes.
 
Wow! that was a great sermon Markk! I was most impressed with your knowledge that you took away with you when you left the church.
I can see why you think the way you do now.... you and I most likely heard and saw things differently when we were young and had minds full of mush.... wherein I kept the light and knowledge I received and you continued listening to the mush that you yourself instilled in your mind. Of course I never put JS on the same level as Christ and even up to today with all the "New Mormonism" being taught by our Progressive teachers and Professors, my belief in our traditional teaching has not changed... you're losing the battle good buddy for reasons of holding on to every anti or enemy of the church.... I bet you watch a lot of John Dehlin and Bill Reel... chuckle.
Read the OP…it is clear. Prove me wrong Ralf, Joseph was guilty of many things….name some of them?
 
Wow! that was a great sermon Markk! I was most impressed with your knowledge that you took away with you when you left the church.
I can see why you think the way you do now.... you and I most likely heard and saw things differently when we were young and had minds full of mush.... wherein I kept the light and knowledge I received and you continued listening to the mush that you yourself instilled in your mind. Of course I never put JS on the same level as Christ and even up to today with all the "New Mormonism" being taught by our Progressive teachers and Professors, my belief in our traditional teaching has not changed... you're losing the battle good buddy for reasons of holding on to every anti or enemy of the church.... I bet you watch a lot of John Dehlin and Bill Reel... chuckle.
Ralf, I watch John Dehlin, I have watched Bill Reel, I watch General conference, I watch new LDS produced movies (i.e the witnesses), I read new books by the GA, I was reading though the new SS study courses the other day. I read The Bible, D&C, PoGP, and the BoM…and anything else that might help me understand Both Mormonism and Christianity…

Have you watched John Dehlin? Which episodes? Or Bill Reel? Which episodes? Have you read say …this LDS book…”The Historical Record” by Andrew Jensen…maybe one of the most import books ever written on LDS History,by a LDS TBM author?

I have a copy from the late 1800’s that was my grandfathers, which was his fathers, who was a polygamous in American Fork..have you read it?


edit…here is a link for a free down load of all the editions… back in the day folks like Brian Hales, a distant cousin or mine and Mags, who wrote part of the church essay on polygamy told me he paid hundreds of dollars for this book, you can have it for free, with a simple down load.

 
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Aaron, you only bolded part of what I wrote…I also wrote even if “passively and indirectly?” My first ”proof” is what DB actually wrote. He “indirectly” and I will add unwittingly, compared Joseph to Jesus. You can certainly disagree with DB’s question too me, but you can’t deny what he wrote.
First, that's really a stretch.
Second, Idisagree with a lot of things he writes, Third, regardless of anything, he doesn't speak for the entire Church.
1st, is LDS .org the benchmark for all things Mormon?
Read the Church handbook. It specifies the source of doctrinal teachings.
2nd, Are all official declarations official church doctrine?
They're included in the Standard Works, so yes.
3rd…What is the official “cut off date” in regards to the date of his death, that one can write off what he teaches as nonsense?
Lol! That's a great question. Trying to cover up polygamy ultimately led to his so...I don't know.
Bottom line:

“God made Aaron to be the mouth piece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be god to you in His stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me; and if you don't like it, you must lump it. (History of the Church, vol. 6, pp. 319-20)”

Also i linked this from LDS .org….go there, type in “lump it”…LDS .org will like you to the JS papers, and this hand written statement that God will make Joseph a god…

Lol! Yeah, sorry, that's not how it works. This was part of the lesson the Church had to learn over time.
I can give yo more Aaron if you like…but DB showed his true colors here and we both know you ar win the vast minority of members…most passively worship JS, and many like I did growing up, have his picture in our homes.
Fallacy: Appeal to popularity.
Only the few will find it.
 
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First, that's really a stretch.
Second, Idisagree with a lot of things he writes, Third, regardless of anything, he doesn't speak for the entire Church.

Read the Church handbook. It specifies the source of doctrinal teachings.

They're included in the Standard Works, so yes.

Lol! That's a great question. Trying to cover up polygamy ultimately led to his so...I don't know.

Lol! Yeah, sorry, that's not how it works. This was part of the lesson the Church had to learn over time.

Fallacy: Appeal to popularity.
Only the few will find it.
Aaron, you usually offer up real thought-out answers. This is just a drive by response. If I link or paste something you disagree with, it is not doctrine, if you paste it, it is, but in the end, both are for the same sources.

Name me some of the lies and criminal act that Joseph did over his "ministry," which are many. And let see how many members would agree with you.

The church rises and falls on JS...he is more important to "the church" than Jesus or God...if not, why do you need to be a Mormon? Think hard before you answer that, in that it will always circle back to Joseph.
 
Aaron, you usually offer up real thought-out answers. This is just a drive by response.
Sorry, bro. It's been a long day.
If I link or paste something you disagree with, it is not doctrine, if you paste it, it is, but in the end, both are for the same sources.
What? LDS.org?
Name me some of the lies and criminal act that Joseph did over his "ministry," which are many. And let see how many members would agree with you.
I honestly couldn't tell you.
The church rises and falls on JS...he is more important to "the church" than Jesus or God...
I'm actually planning an OP that addresses this.
if not, why do you need to be a Mormon? Think hard before you answer that, in that it will always circle back to Joseph.
Because of the gift of the Holy Ghost.
 
Without even realizing it the author of the post above compared Joseph Smith to Jesus (God).
Uh huh. No one realized it but you. Do you see the problem?
Joseph is a God to the LDS people
false.
As a Mormon, were were taught
You can only talk about what you think you were taught. Otherwise, you have no idea what we were taught.
We sign songs about him and taught with pictures of him rendered in a “holy” way.
I'm sure Moses had songs sung about him as well, and; quite possibly, there were some pictures. Some even claimed his face glowed with holy light. We don't have any pictures of Joseph Smith glowing.
It is in the ”DNA” of every TBM to put Joseph on the same level as their HF and Christ, again as he did here.
LOL. That's laughable. I wonder if the rest of this tripe is bloviation.
These is a key component to their God complex. The church drills this in the mind of its members that Joseph is a God, again even if indirectly. There are teaching from past GA’s that he is a God.

I asked him a question… “Then explain how a counterfeiter, probably a murderer, was an associate with JS and even an appointed Colonel in the Nauvoo legion under General Smith? Just think of Joseph’s friends and associates…”
His response seems reasonable. Still looks like a big nothing burger.
“Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet…When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go” (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408).
That makes sense too.
 
I honestly couldn't tell you.
This is really my point in many ways. There is more than enough evidence that he was not a very good person. The church paints a Pollyanna narrative…and members, like you are demonstrating can’t speak out negatively about him in any specific way. H eis seen in a light of being perfect and as I wrote passively, deity.
 
This is really my point in many ways. There is more than enough evidence that he was not a very good person. The church paints a Pollyanna narrative…and members, like you are demonstrating can’t speak out negatively about him in any specific way. H eis seen in a light of being perfect and as I wrote passively, deity.
I've been fairly forthright about his polygamy, but then I incur the wrath of BoJ.
 
I asked him a question… “Then explain how a counterfeiter, probably a murderer, was an associate with JS and even an appointed Colonel in the Nauvoo legion under General Smith?

And I asked you a question in return--how did Judas make it to the position of being appointed a disciple of Jesus Christ?

IOW--if that principle was a fact with Jesus Christ--then why would it be questionable, when it comes to mankind?
 
And I asked you a question in return--how did Judas make it to the position of being appointed a disciple of Jesus Christ?

IOW--if that principle was a fact with Jesus Christ--then why would it be questionable, when it comes to mankind?
LOL baloney….as they say “the coverup and lie is always worse that the crime.” You 1st avoided actually answering my question, as always, then you wrote an emotional response and didn’t even think through what you wrote because of your reverent view of Smith as a perfect man, that most all Mormons have. I can almost guarantee when you bare your testimony JS, the restoration, and “true church” are equal, or even foremost at the center, of your testimony with Christ.

The Apostle Paul was a murderer, and really bad person as Saul…he condemned Christian to their death. Peter was anu skull, arrogant and a onward when it came to his association with Christ…and if we had more history of them, there would be much more things like this.

We do have so much, in regards to JS and his associates in historical tracings and writings….a treasurer trove compared to most historical people, places and times. And, many if not most come from Mormon sources…so that given, what were some of the negative things Joseph did…lets discuss them, you must know about is failures and well as his “successes.”

I highly doubt you will discuss any of these because he has to be this perfect God like figure in order for Mormonism to work as an institution and as the ”benchmark” for most all members testimony…Much like a Warren Jeffs is to the other LDS church.

“Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me. For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith. (D&C)”


"No man can accept Jesus Christ as the Savior of the world, no man can accept this as His church, the Church of Jesus Christ, unless he can accept Joseph Smith as God's mouthpiece and the restorer of His work in these latter days."….(Harold B Lee, teachings of, and the ensign.)

This is just the start of such quotes as to how he is viewed by the folks and how he is the real keystone to Mormonism.

More later
 
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