God Destroys Righteous Ones Who Fail To Persevere and Shrink Back

Simpletruther

Well-known member
Yes, the ones the Father is giving to Jesus go to Him.
It also happens to be the case that that is not an immutable quality.
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last da
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
Some of God's righteous ones, alive by faith, will shrink back and be destroyed.

Hebrews 10
36For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised. 37For,
“Yet a little while,
and the coming one will come and will not delay;
38but my righteous one shall live by faith,
and if he shrinks back,
my soul has no pleasure in him.”
39But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.

v36You have need of endurance, but some of v38God's righteous ones who live by faith do not endure, so God has no pleasure in them and so v39He destroys them.
Incorrect "we" being paul and any other true believer, are not of those who shrink back, but of those who have faith and preserve their soul
 

Daniel.

Member
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last da
"the one who is coming to Me"--present tense, as in "endure", not just "whoever believes even once", which is precisely what the passages I've cited in the OP teach.
 

Daniel.

Member
Incorrect "we" being paul and any other true believer, are not of those who shrink back, but of those who have faith and preserve their soul
Nope, God says "My righteous one will live by faith, but if HE shrinks back My soul will have no pleasure in HIM". Who is the "he" and the "him"? "My righteous one". Paul later confirms that some of God's righteous ones will be destroyed for failing to continue in faith. Saying "we are not of those" is an encouragement to them in the midst of his warning them--as he says "for God is not unjust to forget" how they had served and suffered for Him.
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
Nope, God says "My righteous one will live by faith, but if HE shrinks back My soul will have no pleasure in HIM". Who is the "he" and the "him"? "My righteous one". Paul later confirms that some of God's righteous ones will be destroyed for failing to continue in faith. Saying "we are not of those" is an encouragement to them in the midst of his warning them--as he says "for God is not unjust to forget" how they had served and suffered for Him.
And? "If" adoesn't mean it will.

Ànd again he clearly says "we" will not shrink back.
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
"the one who is coming to Me"--present tense, as in "endure", not just "whoever believes even once", which is precisely what the passages I've cited in the OP teach.
It clearly says they all will come (arrive). All of them.

And all the Father gives will be raised...........period.
 

Daniel.

Member
And? "If" adoesn't mean it will.

Ànd again he clearly says "we" will not shrink back.
Nope, since Paul affirms some righteous ones indeed do shrink back to destruction clearly he just means to include himself and his audience--and he does so as an encouragement to them so as not to "exasperate" them (Ep 6:4).
 

Daniel.

Member
It clearly says they all will come (arrive). All of them.
The ones who are going to Him, sure, but not if they stop going to Him.
If you went to Him yesterday you still need to go to Him today.
Unfortunately, some of the branches which issue from the Vine do not abide in the Vine.
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
Nope, since Paul affirms some righteous ones indeed do shrink back to destruction clearly he just means to include himself and his audience--and he does so as an encouragement to them so as not to "exasperate" them (Ep 6:4).
Paul didn't lie to encourage them, sorry.
 

Daniel.

Member
Paul didn't lie to encourage them, sorry.
That part is not even relevant--"My righteous one will live by faith, but if HE shrinks back, My soul will have no pleasure in HIM... we are not of those [righteous ones] who shrink back to destruction". When God says "if My righteous one shrinks back" that is the same group the author is referring to in v39.
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Nope, since Paul affirms some righteous ones indeed do shrink back to destruction clearly he just means to include himself and his audience--and he does so as an encouragement to them so as not to "exasperate" them (Ep 6:4).
So you misapply Ephesians 6:4 to support your heresy as well? Shameful.

Edit per mod

We're waiting.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Daniel.

Member
So you misapply Ephesians 6:4 to support your heresy as well? Shameful.

Hey, please be expedient in announcing your own personal loss of salvation, you seem quite enthusiastic, and appear to hold high hopes in anticipation of others losing it, therefore it would be fitting for you to be the first one ever to do so and announce it to us.

We're waiting.
"Shameful" that I think a father doesn't want to exasperate his child? Do you know what "shameful" even means?
 

Daniel.

Member
you seem quite enthusiastic, and appear to hold high hopes in anticipation of others losing it
As in apparently most things you set your eyes on, you've misunderstood what I've said.

This is a discussion about facts.
If I argue that something is a fact it doesn't necessarily mean I am happy about that fact.
This is of course a very basic thing you shouldn't have to have explained, but here we are.
 

Daniel.

Member
Hebrews 10
36For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised. 37For,
“Yet a little while,
and the coming one will come and will not delay;
38but my righteous one shall live by faith,
and if he shrinks back,
my soul has no pleasure in him.”
39But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.

Why do you have need of endurance?
Because "My righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back My soul has no pleasure in him."
Therefore, to say that v39's "we" refers to "all those who are righteous by faith" is nothing but dishonesty, because he literally clarifies that there really is a group of "those who shrink back and are destroyed"--and, again, in the context, the only group he has mentioned anything about "shrinking back" is "God's righteous one", and, again, the whole passage is a warning about needing to "endure" in order to receive the promise (eternal life) after having done God's will.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
As in apparently most things you set your eyes on, you've misunderstood what I've said.

This is a discussion about facts.
If I argue that something is a fact it doesn't necessarily mean I am happy about that fact.
This is of course a very basic thing you shouldn't have to have explained, but here we are.

In one day, your seem intent for another time period heading out in the tall weeds.

So, who are you saying shouldn't have to have something explained. Is that an insult? It looks like it to me.

My experience with you tells me that you rarely have any facts on your side, just what you think you can make scripture say. My Pastor some years back called these type of arguments playing Russian roulette with the Bible.

Perhaps another forum such as 'apologetics' would suit your purposes. There isn't serious disagreement with most Arminians on OSAS, or with POPS for Calvinists.
 

Daniel.

Member
In one day, your seem intent for another time period heading out in the tall weeds.

So, who are you saying shouldn't have to have something explained. Is that an insult? It looks like it to me.

My experience with you tells me that you rarely have any facts on your side, just what you think you can make scripture say. My Pastor some years back called these type of arguments playing Russian roulette with the Bible.

Perhaps another forum such as 'apologetics' would suit your purposes. There isn't serious disagreement with most Arminians on OSAS, or with POPS for Calvinists.
I do not know what you mean by "heading out in the tall weeds". Do you mean "getting banned"? I've asked what I've said recently that has gotten me banned but have received no answers. I don't even know what's getting me banned.

He shouldn't have to have that explained--his ignoring that reality gives him the illegitimate opportunity to try to seem like he's making a point when he has no point to make.
 

Daniel.

Member
Perhaps another forum such as 'apologetics' would suit your purposes. There isn't serious disagreement with most Arminians on OSAS, or with POPS for Calvinists.
Of course there is. Arminians are Synergists, thus believe, in many cases, believers can fall away, whereas Calvinists are Monergists and almost uniformly believe in POTS.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
1. Is that an "offensive" and "insulting" comment? Yes, using your standard, I believe it is.

2. Funny, that's the same experience I have with everyone on this forum--they never have answers.

Great admission. You can't un-shake the faith of true believers. PERIOD.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
I do not know what you mean by "heading out in the tall weeds". Do you mean "getting banned"? I've asked what I've said recently that has gotten me banned but have received no answers. I don't even know what's getting me banned.

He shouldn't have to have that explained--his ignoring that reality gives him the illegitimate opportunity to try to seem like he's making a point when he has no point to make.

Once again. You cannot misrepresent what other people have said. You must provide a link.
 
Top