God did not become the last Adam

SeventhDay

Active member
Easily. His transgression made manifest he was a sinner. The law was given him that sin might abound.
Not so fast! :)

Yes, certainly Adam had a carnal disposition but until the law came he did not sin and therefor was not a sinner. A sinner is one that sins and Adam did not sin before the law was given. Yes, by Adam breaking the law shows Adams true colours but he was not classified as a sinner until he sinned.

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 

Anthony

Active member
Adam was a sinner, that is why he sinned, he did what came natural. Jesus was not a sinner and couldn't sin and his temptation validated it.
Many forget that Jesus/Yahusha was the only Spiritual Seed of God. The first Adam wasn't. He was natural and earthy whereas The 2nd Adam is YHWH from heaven:

1Cor 15:47 The first man {\i is} of the earth, earthy: the second man {\i is} YAHUAH from heaven.

That's why He was sinless. He could not be tempted internally (He didn't have to struggle sin in His flesh as we all do) but was only externally tempted as we can see that He was lead by The Spirit to be tempted in the wilderness.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

In fleshly nature, the law of God could not be obeyed. What God did was to send His Spiritual Seed in likeness of our sinful flesh. It's likeness and not exactness of our flesh. His body was prepared by God for Him as He didn't inherit body from Mary. Only her womb was borrowed. Those who believe He received body from Mary don't know that Mary wasn't immaculate.

Jesus couldn't offer His Body and Blood for our eternal life had He inherited sinful nature from Mary.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Not so fast! :)

Yes, certainly Adam had a carnal disposition but until the law came he did not sin and therefor was not a sinner. A sinner is one that sins and Adam did not sin before the law was given. Yes, by Adam breaking the law shows Adams true colours but he was not classified as a sinner until he sinned.

God bless you,

SeventhDay
Yes carnal sold under sin Ron 7:14

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
 

Anthony

Active member
Not so fast! :)

Yes, certainly Adam had a carnal disposition but until the law came he did not sin and therefor was not a sinner. A sinner is one that sins and Adam did not sin before the law was given. Yes, by Adam breaking the law shows Adams true colours but he was not classified as a sinner until he sinned.

God bless you,

SeventhDay
There is no knowledge of sin apart from the Law/Torah.

Sin is transgression of the Law of God. Apart from The Law sin is dead.
 

Anthony

Active member
Easily. His transgression made manifest he was a sinner. The law was given him that sin might abound.
I think you are more closer to the truth.

Adam was created natural and earthy - for the very purpose of the revelation of Christ.

The physical pointed to the reality of the spiritual as God planned salvation even before He created man.

There is spiritual behind the natural creation. There is new heavens and new earth; there is New Jerusalem - spiritual in contrast to natural.
 

SeventhDay

Active member
I think you are more closer to the truth.

Adam was created natural and earthy - for the very purpose of the revelation of Christ.

The physical pointed to the reality of the spiritual as God planned salvation even before He created man.

There is spiritual behind the natural creation. There is new heavens and new earth; there is New Jerusalem - spiritual in contrast to natural.
Nevertheless, Adam though subject to death without the Spirit of God indwelling him and not eternal was innocent until he transgressed the law. Sin by definition is transgression of the law. Now, it is the law that lured the carnal mind of Adam to transgress the law and that is what Adam did. He did not show he had a spiritual disposition to overcome his carnal mind. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Many forget that Jesus/Yahusha was the only Spiritual Seed of God. The first Adam wasn't. He was natural and earthy whereas The 2nd Adam is YHWH from heaven:

1Cor 15:47 The first man {\i is} of the earth, earthy: the second man {\i is} YAHUAH from heaven.

That's why He was sinless. He could not be tempted internally (He didn't have to struggle sin in His flesh as we all do) but was only externally tempted as we can see that He was lead by The Spirit to be tempted in the wilderness.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

In fleshly nature, the law of God could not be obeyed. What God did was to send His Spiritual Seed in likeness of our sinful flesh. It's likeness and not exactness of our flesh. His body was prepared by God for Him as He didn't inherit body from Mary. Only her womb was borrowed. Those who believe He received body from Mary don't know that Mary wasn't immaculate.

Jesus couldn't offer His Body and Blood for our eternal life had He inherited sinful nature from Mary.
Good post!
Yes, once one gives into the carnal mind and breaks God's law then he is a sinner. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
Adam was carnal from the beginning. He could do nothing but give in.
 

SeventhDay

Active member
Good post!

Adam was carnal from the beginning. He could do nothing but give in.
Yes, Adam was carnal from the beginning but without the law one is not held accountable and is not reckoned for sin because sin is the transgression of the law. Do you agree with that or not? However, Adam did break the law and was reckoned a sinner! :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Anthony

I think you are more closer to the truth.

Adam was created natural and earthy - for the very purpose of the revelation of Christ.
Exactly, Adam was created for Christ redempive purpose Col 1:14-16
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

The physical pointed to the reality of the spiritual as God planned salvation even before He created man.

Exactly
There is spiritual behind the natural creation. There is new heavens and new earth; there is New Jerusalem - spiritual in contrast to natural.

I can see that

Now may I ask, are you a universalist who believes everyone will be saved?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Yes, Adam was carnal from the beginning but without the law one is not held accountable and is not reckoned for sin because sin is the transgression of the law. Do you agree with that or not? However, Adam did break the law and was reckoned a sinner! :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
The law of God was given adam. He was commanded not to eat of a certain tree!
 

SeventhDay

Active member
The law of God was given adam. He was commanded not to eat of a certain tree!

Yes, when the law was given Adam broke the law and thus became a sinner but not before that. How come you are not understanding this? Adam was innocent before the law came and he was also lawless! :)

God bless you,

Seventhday
 

SeventhDay

Active member
Anthony

I think you are more closer to the truth.


Exactly, Adam was created for Christ redempive purpose Col 1:14-16
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:



Exactly


I can see that

Now may I ask, are you a universalist who believes everyone will be saved?
Yes, Adam sinning and Adam needing redemption is part of the creative process. The fact that Adam had a carnal mind shows that Adam was not a perfect or complete creation of God. Adam's perfection is in Christ the last Adam as a new spiritual creation who will overcome the carnal mind. The old Adam never could and has been put away, He is dead with Christ in his death. God wants the new spiritual man that God quickens out of death, That is why one must be born anew. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 
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