God did not create time

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So at what moment in “the trinity fellowship” did God “create the heavens and the earth”?

My inability to answer this question is one reason why I make the distinction.



I’m not saying there was not, I’m simply saying whatever it is it is different than how God has determined that his creation experience “time”.



Like I said “the beginning” was a moment created for us to refer to… not for God.

It’s like our “birthday” has a tangible quality to the concept of… let’s say driving a car.

Mom: “You are not 16 yet so you can’t drive a car”

Son: “I’m not 16 what?”

Mom: “You are not 16 years old” referring to the day he was born.

The reference point makes the concept of creation tangible for us.



I agree the creation of the “start point” is the reference that gives meaning to the concept of both “time” and the “number 8”. Without the reference point the concept is meaningless.

Can we make the concept of the “number 8” apply to God apart from creation?
Can we make the concept of “time” apply to God apart from creation?

We know God created the existence of the “timeline of creation” but we do not know where that fits into Gods eternal “Timeline” of existence.

Do you agree 8 is not a a thing that itslef is real, it is simply a concept attached to things to describe them?

It seems we may be agreeing on that?

I view time the same way, we attach it to things (events) to describe them.

I see no logical necessity that I know where creation landed on GOD'S timeline to concieve of it being on that timeline. It came after(time) eternity past, and before(time) the rest of history and then eternity future.
 
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Do you agree 8 is not a a thing that us real, it is simply a concept attached to things to describe them?

It seems we may be agreeing on that?

I view time the same way, we attach it to things (events) to describe them.
Before God created the heavens and earth as He was dwelling in eternity do you believe time as we now understand time existed ? What would have been the purpose of time for God living in eternity as He remained eternally the same never changing ? Time was created for God’s creation because time has no effect on God. What purpose before creation would there have been for time ? My answer is none it would have been without purpose if God had not created.
 
The question is, does God get any say in Who He Is, or is God forced to be something.

God CHOOSES to be a Morally Good Being, in that sense, rather than being forced to have a good nature against the freedom of His will.
Both are true. God freely chooses to be who He is. He is not double minded.

Nothing can force God.
 
Before God created the heavens and earth as He was dwelling in eternity do you believe time as we now understand time existed ? What would have been the purpose of time for God living in eternity as He remained eternally the same never changing ? Time was created for God’s creation because time has no effect on God. What purpose before creation would there have been for time ? My answer is none it would have been without purpose if God had not created.
God existed in Trinity fellowship, the persons loving each other, praising one another.

On praise after another.

Time doesn't just refer to change, but to events. Worship and fellowship are events.
 
God existed in Trinity fellowship, the persons loving each other, praising one another.

On praise after another.

Time doesn't just refer to change, but to events. Worship and fellowship are events.
Do you have any scripture to support that time existed before God created the heavens and earth ?
 
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Same with me pucturing frozen tine shots.


However I am not seeing a need for the distinction of levels of sequence.

One thing happens after another.

Whether in eternity past or after creation.

If that is the reality, it would not be "binding" God but simply describing the reality He sustains.
I think that it is actually extremely important to see the distinction between levels of existence. It distinguishes between the transcendence and imminence of God. It distinguishes between the Creator and creation. It distinguishes between creational dependence and divine independence. This bifurcation between two different kinds of reality is built upon an eternal, self-sufficient God creating ex-nihilo.

To give a simple analogy, CS Lewis was on a different level than the land of Narnia in his books. We can speak of the author's level of time, but this is distinct from time in the land of Narnia. This is especially true since time in Narnia was different than in the Europe in the books. Both of those time frames were different than CS Lewis' own "outside of the books" experience of time.

I see this as critical because a key Gnostic benchmark is to conflate the transcendent with the imminent; reality is reduced to one level of being for the sake of a preferred, autonomous method of human knowing (I'm referring to a certain book called "Science, Politics, and Gnosticism" by Eric Voegelin).

Yes, one thing happens after another, but that doesn't mean that a movie being fast forwarded is the same as my experience of time outside of the dvd. The two are radically different.
 
I think that it is actually extremely important to see the distinction between levels of existence. It distinguishes between the transcendence and imminence of God. It distinguishes between the Creator and creation. It distinguishes between creational dependence and divine independence. This bifurcation between two different kinds of reality is built upon an eternal, self-sufficient God creating ex-nihilo.

To give a simple analogy, CS Lewis was on a different level than the land of Narnia in his books. We can speak of the author's level of time, but this is distinct from time in the land of Narnia. This is especially true since time in Narnia was different than in the Europe in the books. Both of those time frames were different than CS Lewis' own "outside of the books" experience of time.

I see this as critical because a key Gnostic benchmark is to conflate the transcendent with the imminent; reality is reduced to one level of being for the sake of a preferred, autonomous method of human knowing (I'm referring to a certain book called "Science, Politics, and Gnosticism" by Eric Voegelin).

Yes, one thing happens after another, but that doesn't mean that a movie being fast forwarded is the same as my experience of time outside of the dvd. The two are radically different.
Yes. God experiences time differently. This doesn't mean that time doesn't exist with God.
 
So what? I can define nothing, and nothing doesn't exist. By definition. I didn't define anything that exists other than as a concept.
If we take your logic and apply it to God, then the concept that you have defined as God is God. Your God is nothing more than a concept.
 
I think that it is actually extremely important to see the distinction between levels of existence. It distinguishes between the transcendence and imminence of God. It distinguishes between the Creator and creation. It distinguishes between creational dependence and divine independence. This bifurcation between two different kinds of reality is built upon an eternal, self-sufficient God creating ex-nihilo.

To give a simple analogy, CS Lewis was on a different level than the land of Narnia in his books. We can speak of the author's level of time, but this is distinct from time in the land of Narnia. This is especially true since time in Narnia was different than in the Europe in the books. Both of those time frames were different than CS Lewis' own "outside of the books" experience of time.

I see this as critical because a key Gnostic benchmark is to conflate the transcendent with the imminent; reality is reduced to one level of being for the sake of a preferred, autonomous method of human knowing (I'm referring to a certain book called "Science, Politics, and Gnosticism" by Eric Voegelin).

Yes, one thing happens after another, but that doesn't mean that a movie being fast forwarded is the same as my experience of time outside of the dvd. The two are radically different.

So what? I can define nothing, and nothing doesn't exist. By definition. I didn't define anything that exists other than as a concept.
Then it exists.....as a concept.
 
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