God did not create time

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Titus 1:2 says.....in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

The word used is "5550. chronos"....Just saying....all though in certain situations you can use "age" or a similar word.

Genesis does tells in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth....I would venture to say at that time God created "time"...and gravitas well as space.
I would also imagine God created more than our 3 dimensions + time.
 
Simpletruther said:
@His clay
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I take a supra-temporal view. I combine the obvious "before the foundation of the world" and "intra-trinitarian relationship" with the point of God's transcendence. So God still has sequence, and "before the foundation of the world" makes sense, but God is not bound by the level of sequence of His creation. Personally, I find this to be the best at combining all the biblical data. "Atemporal" just doesn't make any sense to me; I get pictures of people simply frozen when the atemporal point is brought up. I don't find your point about science and Einstein persuasive because of my stance on transcendence. In a nutshell, that's my basic position on the issue.
 
Simpletruther said:
Can you define "timeline if creation" so we are not talking past each other?
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It’s simply a way to describe the Eternal God as distinct from the beginning of creation. God is not in creation as a being bound to its moment by moment change.

If you simply refer to Time as a whole there is no distinction between the eternal singular moment of God’s existence, before creation, and the moment by moment timeline of creation.

…
 
Simpletruther said:
God can Watch and observe without learning. Just as a producer watches the film He himself made.
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I have no problem with this analogy because you included the fact that it is the result of the producers own actions.

Now the question is: Can you, as a 3rd party observer, know the ending of the film, without first watching it or learning from another external source?

…
 
Sketo said:
I have no problem with this analogy because you included the fact that it is the result of the producers own actions.

Now the question is: Can you, as a 3rd party observer, know the ending of the film, without first watching it or learning from another external source?

…
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I think we agree the answer is no.

My point was though that this is also true in alternative view that time isnt a tangible thing God created. It's simply a concept referencing flow of events.
 
His clay said:
I take a supra-temporal view. I combine the obvious "before the foundation of the world" and "intra-trinitarian relationship" with the point of God's transcendence. So God still has sequence, and "before the foundation of the world" makes sense, but God is not bound by the level of sequence of His creation. Personally, I find this to be the best at combining all the biblical data. "Atemporal" just doesn't make any sense to me; I get pictures of people simply frozen when the atemporal point is brought up. I don't find your point about science and Einstein persuasive because of my stance on transcendence. In a nutshell, that's my basic position on the issue.
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Same with me pucturing frozen tine shots.


However I am not seeing a need for the distinction of levels of sequence.

One thing happens after another.

Whether in eternity past or after creation.

If that is the reality, it would not be "binding" God but simply describing the reality He sustains.
 
Sketo said:
It’s simply a way to describe the Eternal God as distinct from the beginning of creation. God is not in creation as a being bound to its moment by moment change.
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The idea that time isn't a real tangible thing does not require God to be indistinguishable from the beginning of creation.

In the beginning, God created. He is self evidently distinct from the beginning of creation regardless of the nature of time.

Nor does it require God be "in" creation for God to be watching the flow of creation unfold. I would suggest He did watch, and declared it good.
Sketo said:
If you simply refer to Time as a whole there is no distinction between the eternal singular moment of God’s existence, before creation, and the moment by moment timeline of creation.

…
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This assumes there is such a thing as "eternal singular moment". Not sure I can even concieve of such a thing.

I can however conceive (somewhat) of God living moment by moment in fellowship of trinity from eternity past.

Consider the number 8. Did God create that number, or did He not create it, and is actually "bound" by the number 8?

The answer is neither. It's a false dichotomy. The number 8 isn't a created thing, only a concept we connect to created things. Similar with time. It's a concept of sequencing events.
 
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Simpletruther said:
The idea that time isn't a real tangible thing does not require God to be indistinguishable from the beginning of creation.

In the beginning, God created. He is self evidently distinct from the beginning of creation regardless of the nature of time.

Nor does it require God be "in" creation for God to be watching the flow of creation unfold. I would suggest He did watch, and declared it good.

This assumes there is such a thing as "eternal singular moment". Not sure I can even concieve of such a thing.

I can however conceive (somewhat) of God living moment by moment in fellowship of trinity from eternity past.
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Would you say God is subject to the rules of time?
 
Reformedguy said:
Would you say God is subject to the rules of time?
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Not totally sure what you have in mind.

I would ask though is God a God of reason and rationality?
Can He make a rock so heavy that He cannot lift it? Hopefully we agree.....no.

I see time as similar. Time is simply the ordering events in sequence. And you can order events correctly or wrongly. God always orders them correctly.

God fellowships in trinity (I think) moment by moment from eternity past. One moment had to follow the moment before.

I don't see this as like binding God, but rather as affirming 2+2=4.
 
Simpletruther said:
Not totally sure what you have in mind.

I would ask though is God a God of reason and rationality?
Can He make a rock so heavy that He cannot lift it? Hopefully we agree.....no.

I see time as similar. Time is simply the ordering events in sequence. And you can order events correctly or wrongly. God always orders them correctly.

God fellowships in trinity (I think) moment by moment from eternity past. One moment had to follow the moment before.

I don't see this as like binding God, but rather as affirming 2+2=4.
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I have never really thought this through much. I just have some questions out of curiosity.

So if time is a sequence of events, what would have been the initial event? Or do you believe time has no beginning or end?

I love this conversation.
 
Reformedguy said:
I have never really thought this through much. I just have some questions out of curiosity.

So if time is a sequence of events, what would have been the initial event? Or do you believe time has no beginning or end?

I love this conversation.
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If my view is correct, time is eternal, as it describes the moment by moment trinity fellowship from eternity past, and always will.

I see at least advantages to this view,

1.
it's a simpler explanation of time that works(ocean's razor)
and my favorite reason,

2.
it takes away the arminian "God is outside of time" attempt to try to explain free will. It doesn't work anyway, but this view means it doubly doesnt work.
 
Simpletruther said:
If my view is correct, time is eternal, as it describes the moment by moment trinity fellowship from eternity past, and always will.

I see at least advantages to this view,

1.
it's a simpler explanation of time that works(ocean's razor)
and my favorite reason,

2.
it takes away the arminian "God is outside of time" attempt to try to explain free will. It doesn't work anyway, but this view means it doubly doesnt work.
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More vain philosophical arguments and presuppositional opinions .
 
Chalcedon said:
In relation to what ?

Quote God for us !
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Jer 1:4 Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying,

5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
and before you were born I consecrated you;
I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”



Notice He ""knew" past tense. He consecrated........again past tense. There are plenty of others.
 
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