God did not create time

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God does not exist in time. Time exists in God, as a concept.

You you assuming time is an actual tangible thing with the notion ".God exists in time"
The statement "I'm AM" is more than a concept.

Is Love just a concept? At the appointed time, Jesus Christ gave His life for us. God, is always right on Time.
 
The reference point in eternity past is the trinity fellowship.

So at what moment in “the trinity fellowship” did God “create the heavens and the earth”?

My inability to answer this question is one reason why I make the distinction.

At any rate, even if I assumed there was no change and no time before creation…

I’m not saying there was not, I’m simply saying whatever it is it is different than how God has determined that his creation experience “time”.

I see no need to attach some tangible qualuty to the beginning of time at creation.

Like I said “the beginning” was a moment created for us to refer to… not for God.

It’s like our “birthday” has a tangible quality to the concept of… let’s say driving a car.

Mom: “You are not 16 yet so you can’t drive a car”

Son: “I’m not 16 what?”

Mom: “You are not 16 years old” referring to the day he was born.

The reference point makes the concept of creation tangible for us.

It's just a start point of creation events. Time is a measurement like the number 8.

I agree the creation of the “start point” is the reference that gives meaning to the concept of both “time” and the “number 8”. Without the reference point the concept is meaningless.

Can we make the concept of the “number 8” apply to God apart from creation?
Can we make the concept of “time” apply to God apart from creation?

We know God created the existence of the “timeline of creation” but we do not know where that fits into Gods eternal “Timeline” of existence.

 
We know God created the existence of the “timeline of creation” but we do not know where that fits into Gods eternal “Timeline” of existence.

You don't find this statement above to be an oxymoron if we are talking about Gods transcendence ?
 
So at what moment in “the trinity fellowship” did God “create the heavens and the earth”?

My inability to answer this question is one reason why I make the distinction.



I’m not saying there was not, I’m simply saying whatever it is it is different than how God has determined that his creation experience “time”.



Like I said “the beginning” was a moment created for us to refer to… not for God.

It’s like our “birthday” has a tangible quality to the concept of… let’s say driving a car.

Mom: “You are not 16 yet so you can’t drive a car”

Son: “I’m not 16 what?”

Mom: “You are not 16 years old” referring to the day he was born.

The reference point makes the concept of creation tangible for us.



I agree the creation of the “start point” is the reference that gives meaning to the concept of both “time” and the “number 8”. Without the reference point the concept is meaningless.

Can we make the concept of the “number 8” apply to God apart from creation?
Can we make the concept of “time” apply to God apart from creation?

We know God created the existence of the “timeline of creation” but we do not know where that fits into Gods eternal “Timeline” of existence.

Not being able to identify a particular point in infinite time witnesses to our fragility and His Divinity. Which is one aspect of establishing/recognizing qualities of Divinity. We do not know the fullness of God's power but we know He is all powerful.
 
Not being able to identify a particular point in infinite time witnesses to our fragility and His Divinity. Which is one aspect of establishing/recognizing qualities of Divinity. We do not know the fullness of God's power but we know He is all powerful.
Does God limit or restrain His power ?
 
We know God created the existence of the “timeline of creation” but we do not know where that fits into Gods eternal “Timeline” of existence.
You don't find this statement above to be an oxymoron if we are talking about Gods transcendence ?

Nope…

If we dug up an artifact, with a date on it, then we know someone created it at that moment… but that date does not tell us the age at which that “transcendent” creator was when he created it does it?

How is this an “oxymoron” again?

 
@4Him

Please delete my account, threads, posts etc.....

I'm over the censorship here at CARM.

I treat people better now and get banned when as a calvinist you looked passed it and even gave me reps like all the other calvinists did on this board.

You are the reason I created my own forum where we have freedom of our religious beliefs.

The exceptions here with the calvinists are reverend, clay and josh. All the others have been hateful towards me and I do not attak anyone here just the teaching of calvin and get banned. Yet the calvinsits can mock arminians and non calvinists and never get banned. hypocrisy

But thanks its been a good 20 years overall and has allowed me to know what I want in a forum for christians and what I do not want. For that I am thankful.

Good- bye CARM !
 
Like I said find one single Arminian or Calvinist theologian who disagrees with me. You cannot find any as they all say time was created and that God is transcendent.

hope this helps !!!

I've already answered this. They generally do not deal with the subject at all. Calvin didn't write a single word in commentary on the book of Revelation. Should I avoid the book of Revelation?

You're making petty arguments because you're losing.

You scour commentary and you shouldn't. I give myself to know arguments.
 
@4Him

Please delete my account, threads, posts etc.....

Ok
I'm over the censorship here at CARM.

No, you aren't.
I treat people better now

No, you don't.
and get banned when as a calvinist you looked passed it and even gave me reps like all the other calvinists did on this board.

I look past no rule breaking regardless of who it is.
You are the reason I created my own forum where we have freedom of our religious beliefs.

Good for you.
The exceptions here with the calvinists are reverend, clay and josh. All the others have been hateful towards me and I do not attak anyone here just the teaching of calvin and get banned.

I can post all of your posts where you personally attack people, including under the multiple sock puppet accounts you have made here.
Yet the calvinsits can mock arminians and non calvinists and never get banned. hypocrisy

Yes, they do.
But thanks its been a good 20 years overall and has allowed me to know what I want in a forum for christians and what I do not want. For that I am thankful.

Good- bye CARM !

See ya.
 
I would say no.

Jesus said....

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Joh 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Two references to a point in time before and after the creation of Genesis 1:1

1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Planning. Coordination. Execution. Order. Not chaos. Not the absence of sequence or time. Precept upon precept. Line upon line.
 
@4Him

Please delete my account, threads, posts etc.....

I'm over the censorship here at CARM.

I treat people better now and get banned when as a calvinist you looked passed it and even gave me reps like all the other calvinists did on this board.

You are the reason I created my own forum where we have freedom of our religious beliefs.

The exceptions here with the calvinists are reverend, clay and josh. All the others have been hateful towards me and I do not attak anyone here just the teaching of calvin and get banned. Yet the calvinsits can mock arminians and non calvinists and never get banned. hypocrisy

But thanks its been a good 20 years overall and has allowed me to know what I want in a forum for christians and what I do not want. For that I am thankful.

Good- bye CARM !
Telling the truth doesn’t make friends but it does honor God’s command to be truthful. Sorry to see you go. Keep your eyes on the Son.
 
You're removing God's free will by forcing his nature to be a certain way.

We do this sometimes because we have trust issues with God (e.g., how can I trust God if God is not forced to do things in a certain way?).

The point of saying God doesn't "have" to be a certain way, is the idea of putting God's ability prioritized above his attributes.

This makes God enthroned as an agent, and not a forced fixed thing.
You are forcing a <libertairian>free will upon God. God is not free to be evil. His attributes define Him.

You have no rational basis to trust Him otherwise. He could always be lying to you, and you do not even have a reason to think He not lying. I have reason to trust Him, He cannot lie.
 
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