God draws, chooses, appoints, elects, predestines, causes, wills, grants, puts, removes, makes alive, etc........

Carbon

Well-known member
The entire salvation process is the Lords from start to finish !
John 6:37,44-45
37"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

44“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

John 6:64-65
But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”
Amen brother!

Many say, all are drawn by prevenient grace, and whosever believes of their own free will are saved. All we have to do when we are drawn to a certain point is, have faith, believe.

However, John 6:37-44 teach quite the opposite. It seems to me verse 44 is the negative counterpart to verse 37.

I mean, verse 37 teaches all the Father gives will come, and verse 44 says, no one can come unless the Father draws them. This presents a problem for Arminians.
Considering, verses 37 & 44 together, the drawing by the Father cannot be reduced to what many call prevenient grace given to every individual.
It should be quite obvious this drawing is selective or the negative note in verse 44 would be meaningless.
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
A

Agreed. I was more arguing that saying the words "Jesus is Lord" is not salific. Hearing the gospel and believing is.
Except in the context Lord means YHWH as in God . So it is salvific . One cannot deny His Deity and be saved. To confess Jesus is Lord is to be in agreement He is God.

hope this helps !!!
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
eternomade said:
Agreed. I was more arguing that saying the words "Jesus is Lord" is not salific. Hearing the gospel and believing is.
Except in the context Lord means YHWH as in God . So it is salvific . One cannot deny His Deity and be saved. To confess Jesus is Lord is to be in agreement He is God.

hope this helps !!!

I think he meant that it's not uttering the syllables that saves, it's actually believing what you utter.

It's different than in Islam, where actually uttering the Shahada in Arabic results in conversion, whether you understand what you're saying or not.
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
I think he meant that it's not uttering the syllables that saves, it's actually believing what you utter.

It's different than in Islam, where actually uttering the Shahada in Arabic results in conversion, whether you understand what you're saying or not.
Ok I didn’t get that from his post but you might be right .
 
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