God draws, chooses, appoints, elects, predestines, causes, wills, grants, puts, removes, makes alive, etc........

ReverendRV

Well-known member
That if you Confess with your mouth that Jesus is LORD, and believe in your heart that he has Risen, you will be Saved...

Jesus Christ, the Son of David, is LORD...

Can you Confess that and believe it? If not, doesn't it mean I have another Jesus?
@eternomade I can get him close to the point of no return; but he refuses to come Out...

If he really believes it's a Salvific Matter (he said so in this Thread), what about those who are in his Calvinist Church? It looks like he cares more for our eternal Souls; or he truly doesn't believe it's a Salvific Matter...
 

eternomade

Well-known member
@eternomade I can get him close to the point of no return; but he refuses to come Out...

If he really believes it's a Salvific Matter (he said so in this Thread), what about those who are in his Calvinist Church? It looks like he cares more for our eternal Souls; or he truly doesn't believe it's a Salvific Matter...
I don't know any history of this.

I just saw the distinction you made betwen Lord and LORD so I liked it ;).

I'm not convinced this verse or passage in Romans is necesarrily talking about the gospel, but this would be a normal response from someone who believes in the true gospel to say "Jesus is Lord/LORD".

I dont go around saying "Jesus is Lord" all day but I do believe the gospel. The problem is there are many different gospels, but only one true gospel.

Salvation isn't knowing all the right facts about God, nor doing all the right things. Salvation is a gift from God to His sheep. We don't know the who the sheep are, so we share, like everyone is sheep.

Anyways I got off track.
 

civic

Well-known member
I don't know any history of this.

I just saw the distinction you made betwen Lord and LORD so I liked it ;).

I'm not convinced this verse or passage in Romans is necesarrily talking about the gospel, but this would be a normal response from someone who believes in the true gospel to say "Jesus is Lord/LORD".

I dont go around saying "Jesus is Lord" all day but I do believe the gospel. The problem is there are many different gospels, but only one true gospel.

Salvation isn't knowing all the right facts about God, nor doing all the right things. Salvation is a gift from God to His sheep. We don't know the who the sheep are, so we share, like everyone is sheep.

Anyways I got off track.
Actually the context in Romans 10 is the gospel- the good news.

But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!


Joel 2:32
32
"And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;

For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.


Here we see Paul quote this OT passage about YHWH and applying it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T.


Rom 10:9-13
9
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."


So a person must confess Jesus is YHWH(Lord) to be saved. Confess means to agree with so the person confessing Jesus is Lord is in agreement that He is YHWH. Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord ( YHWH) will be saved.

hope this helps !!!
 

eternomade

Well-known member
A
So a person must confess Jesus is YHWH(Lord) to be saved. Confess means to agree with so the person confessing Jesus is Lord is in agreement that He is YHWH. Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord ( YHWH) will be saved.
Agreed. I was more arguing that saying the words "Jesus is Lord" is not salific. Hearing the gospel and believing is.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
The entire salvation process is the Lords from start to finish !
John 6:37,44-45
37"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

44“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

John 6:64-65
But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”
Amen brother!

Many say, all are drawn by prevenient grace, and whosever believes of their own free will are saved. All we have to do when we are drawn to a certain point is, have faith, believe.

However, John 6:37-44 teach quite the opposite. It seems to me verse 44 is the negative counterpart to verse 37.

I mean, verse 37 teaches all the Father gives will come, and verse 44 says, no one can come unless the Father draws them. This presents a problem for Arminians.
Considering, verses 37 & 44 together, the drawing by the Father cannot be reduced to what many call prevenient grace given to every individual.
It should be quite obvious this drawing is selective or the negative note in verse 44 would be meaningless.
 

civic

Well-known member
A

Agreed. I was more arguing that saying the words "Jesus is Lord" is not salific. Hearing the gospel and believing is.
Except in the context Lord means YHWH as in God . So it is salvific . One cannot deny His Deity and be saved. To confess Jesus is Lord is to be in agreement He is God.

hope this helps !!!
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
eternomade said:
Agreed. I was more arguing that saying the words "Jesus is Lord" is not salific. Hearing the gospel and believing is.
Except in the context Lord means YHWH as in God . So it is salvific . One cannot deny His Deity and be saved. To confess Jesus is Lord is to be in agreement He is God.

hope this helps !!!

I think he meant that it's not uttering the syllables that saves, it's actually believing what you utter.

It's different than in Islam, where actually uttering the Shahada in Arabic results in conversion, whether you understand what you're saying or not.
 

civic

Well-known member
I think he meant that it's not uttering the syllables that saves, it's actually believing what you utter.

It's different than in Islam, where actually uttering the Shahada in Arabic results in conversion, whether you understand what you're saying or not.
Ok I didn’t get that from his post but you might be right .
 
Top