God Hates Perfectly just as He Loves perfectly !

civic

Well-known member
yes, we all agree people who reject God go to hell. Not the issue.
Calvinists teach God created them for hell.
No it before they were born before they could do anything good or bad. That is what appointed/destined means.

You like to put the cart( those who reject) before the horse(appointed beforehand by God).

That is your pelagian/open theistic view shining through. Every time you mention calvinism in a derogatory manner I will respond with pelagianism. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

BTW- I'm not a calvinist I'm just a person who believes all of Gods word is true whether or not I personally like what is taught. I must conform my ideas to gods word not like you practice by conforming Gods word to your ideas.

hope this helps !!!
 
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Carbon

Well-known member
I agree 100% and like I have said many times before I personally do not like it but its not a matter what I do or do not like.
Amen!

And at the same time, eventually there is great comfort and assurance for the saved, in God's predestination.
Those who do not believe, don't really care anyway, and they will deny Him to His face.

Its a matter of what the bible says. It obviously says so in many passages that most like to either ignore or make excuses or attack Gods character(blame Calvinism) if it is true- which it is !
To the non reformed, this is the best excuse, it's like they are not disagreeing with God's word because they have made adjustments to their liking. They can feel less guilt by casting the blame on a certain theological belief.
Those ol itching ears want to be scratched.

They say, God couldn't possibly be like that, ie, choose an elect and pass over the rest. It's like the eternal God must adjust to their ways. Cant help but think of, It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Heb 10:31.

Thankfully God does not judge us on theological understanding.
 

civic

Well-known member
But you ignore the need to show from scripture that God created people He hated, to intentionally suffer in Hell.
All the non elect by osmosis were created to suffer His wrath. To say otherwise is a contradiction. He died(laid down His life) for His sheep, not goats.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Amen!

And at the same time, eventually there is great comfort and assurance for the saved, in God's predestination.
Those who do not believe, don't really care anyway, and they will deny Him to His face.


To the non reformed, this is the best excuse, it's like they are not disagreeing with God's word because they have made adjustments to their liking. They can feel less guilt by casting the blame on a certain theological belief.
Those ol itching ears want to be scratched.

They say, God couldn't possibly be like that, ie, choose an elect and pass over the rest. It's like the eternal God must adjust to their ways. Cant help but think of, It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Heb 10:31.

Thankfully God does not judge us on theological understanding.
your post betrays a lack of knowledge of the stance of the church over the centuries. Calvinism is a splinter group with its own particular slant on the Bible which the majority of Christianity have never embraced. It does not mean that calvinism is wrong, but to puff yourself up thinking you are in the majority on these things is contray to the truth. You are supporting a minority view. You may be right, but you are not in the majority
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
All the non elect by osmosis were created to suffer His wrath. To say otherwise is a contradiction. He died(laid down His life) for His sheep, not goats.
yes, that's calvinism, but where's your scripture saying God created people He hated with the intention of punishing them in Hell?
 

Carbon

Well-known member
All the non elect by osmosis were created to suffer His wrath. To say otherwise is a contradiction. He died(laid down His life) for His sheep, not goats.
What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, ........................Romans 9.

And @ Seth, what if this is the case? What can you do about it?
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, ........................Romans 9.

And Seth, what if this is the case? What can you do about it?
I can do what anyone can do, Trust in Christ as my saving.
You are misinterpreting the point in Romans 9. It is about His grace and mercy. About Him overlooking sin, about His patience with the sinful, so that they might be saved.
The context of the book of Romans does not allow the Calvinist interpretation. You can only think that way if you pull the verse out of context
 

Carbon

Well-known member
your post betrays a lack of knowledge of the stance of the church over the centuries.
Perhaps you should look into that?
Calvinism is a splinter group with its own particular slant on the Bible which the majority of Christianity have never embraced.
Perhaps you should look into that?
It does not mean that calvinism is wrong,
Oh, .... so it may be correct after all?
but to puff yourself up thinking you are in the majority on these things is contray to the truth. You are supporting a minority view. You may be right, but you are not in the majority
For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. Matt 7.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
I can do what anyone can do, Trust in Christ as my saving.
You are misinterpreting the point in Romans 9. It is about His grace and mercy. About Him overlooking sin, about His patience with the sinful, so that they might be saved.
The context of the book of Romans does not allow the Calvinist interpretation. You can only think that way if you pull the verse out of context
Prove it with scripture Seth. Haven't you learned by now your opinion isn't part of scripture?
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Perhaps you should look into that?

Perhaps you should look into that?

Oh, .... so it may be correct after all?

For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. Matt 7.
Yes, exactly, the truth is a narrow path. But that actually means that the only path to God is Jesus. It is not a reference to a Biblical stance
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Prove it with scripture Seth. Haven't you learned by now your opinion isn't part of scripture?
Over time you find that the mind controlled by calvinism is virtually unreachable, but we keep trying. I told you what your issue was and I told you how you can fix it. get the flow of Romans and see how your verse fits the flow. I could not explain all that to you in a post here, but I promise you, that is your road to truth if you study Romans and grasp the context your verse resides in
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
People reject God of their own free will. Do you disagree Seth?
I do not disagree. And as the other poster said, God foreknew they would, so that is not the issue,
The issue is: did God create people He hated purposing them for Hell with no possible escape?
 

Carbon

Well-known member
And you think that is the same as God making people so that they will reject Him?
I do not disagree. And as the other poster said, God foreknew they would, so that is not the issue,
The issue is: did God create people He hated purposing them for Hell with no possible escape?
Seth, God has decreed that He will be magnified in His justice.
And to accomplish this, He has created man and permitted him to sin volitionally. And to justly damn them for their sins.
I don't see where God created one person to happiness and another person to condemnation.

Didn't God create the human race holy? God does not prevent anyone from obtaining salvation, man does it to himself willfully.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Seth, God has decreed that He will be magnified in His justice.
And to accomplish this, He has created man and permitted him to sin volitionally. And to justly damn them for their sins.
I don't see where God created one person to happiness and another person to condemnation.

Didn't God create the human race holy? God does not prevent anyone from obtaining salvation, man does it to himself willfully.
Did God create the human race holy? He says it was good. Is that what you are referring to?
And I agree with you, salvation is our choice
 
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