Sethproton
Well-known member
Yes! Faith is a gift God gives to everyone. The faith to know He exists. But that faith does not save. The faith that saves is when we entrust ourselves to the God who has revealed Himself to us.And yet faith is God’s gift to His elect ppl.
Sethproton
Well-known member
What about Romans 9:19 where God directly addresses Calvinist about their attitude toward Him?
G
guest1
Guest
Sethproton
Well-known member
Romans 1:19+20 and Hebrews 11:1-3
These describe the gift of faith whereby we can know that God exists. This does not save us, but lets us know (by faith) what we need to know to be able to entrust ourselves to God to be saved.
brightfame52
Well-known member
civic
This is absolutely false. God never hated the elect, even while they were enemies, ungodly sinners He Loved them. Rom 5:8
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
He Loved them while unrepentant and while in unbelief ! It was because He Loved them, He quickened them while dead in sin Eph 2:4-5
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
You have God being mutable and doubleminded, loving and hating the same sinner !
This is absolutely false. God never hated the elect, even while they were enemies, ungodly sinners He Loved them. Rom 5:8
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
He Loved them while unrepentant and while in unbelief ! It was because He Loved them, He quickened them while dead in sin Eph 2:4-5
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
You have God being mutable and doubleminded, loving and hating the same sinner !
G
guest1
Guest
Neither passage says God gives faith to everyone, you made that up as usual.
Heb 11
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for(A) and assurance about what we do not see.(B) 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.(C)
3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command,(D) so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
Rom 1
For what can be (AL)known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, (AM)have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[g] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
any more fallacious arguments?
no wonder you did not paste the actual passages.
Sethproton
Well-known member
you proved nothing, All you did was deny what i said, but made no effort to explain anything.
Sethproton
Well-known member
We were vessels of wrath before we were saved
Does this mean God loved us even while we were destined for wrath?
Most of us think so
ReverendRV
Well-known member
Since he proved something to me, isn't it true he proved something?
G
guest1
Guest
You didn’t prove everyone has faith including the unsaved . Fallaciousness is your motto.
SovereignGrace
Well-known member
Did he quote Romans 12:3? I have him on ignore and can’t (thankfully!!!!!!!!!) read his posts…
Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect. For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.[Romans 12:1-3]
In context, Paul is referring to believers, not every person whoever lived. 2 Thessalonians 3:2 shoots that notion down. and that we will be rescued from perverse and evil men; for not all have faith.
preacher4truth
Well-known member
Some weird "gospels" "jesus'" and "theology" being preached here by @Sethproton.
Scripture declares not all men have faith.
It doesn't say they haven't "exercised" it, which if you think about it, they cannot exercise what they do not possess.
It doesn't say they really do, but they don't have it.
It doesn't say they haven't used it yet which is impossible if one does not have it in the first place.
It doesn't say they don't have it yet, an argument these of his ilk have proffered, which would show that they must get that faith from somewhere, totally contradicting their entire case.
Instead, it plainly states not all men have faith, completely contrary to his heresy.
Note 2 Thessalonians 3:2. Also, Romans 10:17 proves faith isn't inherent, but is external and therefore received. It is also proven in Ephesians 1:19, and in other areas of Scripture as several of you have shared, showing it is a gift received, therefore it isn't possessed by everyone.
One fellow on another site argued that even dogs have faith...so I asked him how many poodles he's won to Christ and baptized. It is anything but the truth for these types.
Scripture declares not all men have faith.
It doesn't say they haven't "exercised" it, which if you think about it, they cannot exercise what they do not possess.
It doesn't say they really do, but they don't have it.
It doesn't say they haven't used it yet which is impossible if one does not have it in the first place.
It doesn't say they don't have it yet, an argument these of his ilk have proffered, which would show that they must get that faith from somewhere, totally contradicting their entire case.
Instead, it plainly states not all men have faith, completely contrary to his heresy.
Note 2 Thessalonians 3:2. Also, Romans 10:17 proves faith isn't inherent, but is external and therefore received. It is also proven in Ephesians 1:19, and in other areas of Scripture as several of you have shared, showing it is a gift received, therefore it isn't possessed by everyone.
One fellow on another site argued that even dogs have faith...so I asked him how many poodles he's won to Christ and baptized. It is anything but the truth for these types.
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preacher4truth
Well-known member
That's a good place to file some of those types away...
Sethproton
Well-known member
context is your friend, when it says not all have faith, it refers to saving faith, but all have been given faith to know God exists
Sethproton
Well-known member
Sure, if you felt he proved something to you, then yes, But since he made no argument, not sure how that proves his position
Theo1689
Well-known member
If I may add....
Some people think it is contradiction for God to love and to hate.
But God can love "Jacob", but hate "Esau". There is no contradiction here.
I think part of the problem is that people think because they're not allowed to hate, then it is wrong for God to hate as well. But that doesn't follow, since God is God, and we are not. God is Holy, and we are not. God is perfect, and we are not. God is sinless, and we are not. We have no basis for hating our fellow man, because we are just as bad, if not worse, than they. Further, it is not our position to "hate" others, but to love them.
Theo1689
Well-known member
<sigh>
For the 1,748,382nd time, knowing God exists is NOT a matter of "faith", it is a matter of KNOWLEDGE.
You are the SOLE person in 2000 years of Christianity to proclaim this ridiculous idea.
Theo1689
Well-known member
Romans 9 is your friend.
Theo1689
Well-known member
Okay, how many university/seminary courses have you taken in "Church history"?
I've taken one online course, based on the two-volume "The Story of Christianity" by Justo Gonzalez. I've also read many of the ECF's independently.
So I'm curious as to what is the your background that gives us reason to trust your opinions?
Well, let's see....
There are many significant themes in Augustine's writings (especially his later writings) which match modern Calvinism. That's one of the reasons why both Calvin and Luther (who were both Augustinians), came away from this teaching.
We see ideas similar to Calvinism in the Jansenist movement, as well as the writings of Thomas Aquinas.
We also see a number of ECF's teaching Limited Atonement in their writings.
And the "explosion" of Christianity, the time of the Reformation, coincided with the invention of Gutenberg's printing press, and once the Bible came readily available to the common people in their own language (English, German, French, etc.), and they were able to read the Bible for themselves, instead of having to trust what Rome told them, they ended up discovering that it taught what is nicknamed, "Calvinism" (which is precisely what happened to me 30 years ago, as well).
The poster gave no indication of being "puffed up", nor did he claim "the majority" (which is a logical fallacy).
"Many are called, FEW are chosen".
"NARROW is the gate, and FEW there be who find it."
Frankly, I don't see the problem....
We are.
Fortunately for others, Arminians will also be saved. You don't have to score 100% a theology exam in order to be saved.