God is a "ECHAD" of one

101G

Well-known member
GINOLJC, to all.
While reading a good topic why Jews will never accept the Gospel of Jesus the Christ, one of the reason was,
1. God is ECHAD, one.
Great I agree, and I'm a believer in the gospel of Jesus the Christ.

so I ask, "How are you using this term "ECHAD" to identify God as ONE?

PICJAG, 101G.
 

101G

Well-known member
I will set the stage for the discussion.
Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"
here the word "ONE" is
H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258

God is a plurality of a ECHAD, in an ordinal designation of First and Last. and this First and Last signify, Ordinal FIRST/Father/LORD, and the same one Spirit, in the ECHAD, the Ordinal LAST/Son/Lord.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

101G

Well-known member
Greeting to all, As I asked our brother Jewjitzu, the same question is put forth you any of you. "Is the person in John 1:3 the same One person Isaiah 44:24 WHO MADE ALL THINGS?"

Please note, the person in Isaiah 44:24 is the LORD oue God in Deuteronomy 6:4, and he was "ALONE" and by HIMSELF when he made the heaven and the Earth.

and ALONE means, "having no one else present".

now here's the dilemma, if one say no, it's not the same one person, then you have two Gods, who is CREATOR, and MAKER of ALL THINGS. and that polytheism.

or, if one say yes, then Jesus is God, who id the "WORD", just as John 1:1c clearly states, "and the Word was God", who is the same "GOD", in Deuteronomy 6:4, who is the FIRST, the Ordinal First, Spirit, who now is in Flesh as a man, EQUALLY Shared as GOD, meaning NATURE.

there reason why we present this, is that the blindness is coming to an end and the nearness of fullness of the Gentiles is at hand.

so no longer will the nation of Israelites be no longer blind to the truth. Romans 11:25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
GINOLJC, to all.
While reading a good topic why Jews will never accept the Gospel of Jesus the Christ, one of the reason was,
1. God is ECHAD, one.
Great I agree, and I'm a believer in the gospel of Jesus the Christ.

so I ask, "How are you using this term "ECHAD" to identify God as ONE?

PICJAG, 101G.
Ecclesiastes 4:8: There is one [that is alone], and he has not a second; yea, he has neither son nor brother."
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
now here's the dilemma, if one say no, it's not the same one person, then you have two Gods, who is CREATOR, and MAKER of ALL THINGS. and that polytheism.
That's a dilemma for you, but not for us. We don't believe that Jesus created the world.
 

101G

Well-known member
Ecclesiastes 4:8: There is one [that is alone], and he has not a second; yea, he has neither son nor brother."
first thanks for the reply, second, "SHARE" the EQUAL Share of God in the ECHAD in flesh
That's a dilemma for you, but not for us. We don't believe that Jesus created the world.
Hebrews 11:3 "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

John 1:10 "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not."

now lets seeit plainly, Proverbs 8:22 "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old."Proverbs 8:23 "I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was."Proverbs 8:24 "When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water."Proverbs 8:25 "Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:"Proverbs 8:26 "While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world."Proverbs 8:27 "When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:"Proverbs 8:28 "When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:"Proverbs 8:29 "When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:"Proverbs 8:30 "Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;"Proverbs 8:31 "Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men."

THERE HE IS..... see my post on the "LIGHT" in the thief on the cross.

so it's a dilemma for you.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

101G

Well-known member
Now to all my sisters and brothers in Judaism.

question, "is this Jesus, the son or the LORD our God", Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

who is this, remember know the context as to who is speaking.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
first thanks for the reply, second, "SHARE" the EQUAL Share of God in the ECHAD in flesh

Hebrews 11:3 "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

John 1:10 "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not."

now lets seeit plainly, Proverbs 8:22 "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old."Proverbs 8:23 "I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was."Proverbs 8:24 "When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water."Proverbs 8:25 "Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:"Proverbs 8:26 "While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world."Proverbs 8:27 "When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:"Proverbs 8:28 "When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:"Proverbs 8:29 "When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:"Proverbs 8:30 "Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;"Proverbs 8:31 "Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men."

THERE HE IS..... see my post on the "LIGHT" in the thief on the cross.

so it's a dilemma for you.

PICJAG, 101G.
So do you or don't you believe Ecclesiastes 4:8: There is one [that is alone], and he has not a second; yea, he has neither son nor brother."
 

101G

Well-known member
So do you or don't you believe Ecclesiastes 4:8: There is one [that is alone], and he has not a second; yea, he has neither son nor brother."
that has nothing to do with God, we suggest you read the context of what the preacher was saying.

Now as being ALONE, in God case, just read Isaiah 44:24....

PICJAG, 101G.
 

101G

Well-known member
GINOLJC, to all my brothers and sisters of God who may be in Christ or not. but stilled blessed of God as all people who are his childeren.

what's the basic pronlem with many people, Jews as well as Gentiles, is not knowing the differentiation of,
A. God who is the H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), the ONE TRUE and LIVING God, that is,

B. God, the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') in ordinal manifestation of First and Last, in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and RANK.

this plurality in the ECHAD have blinded Jew well as Gentiles, this time of blindness is over, God is a ECHAD of himself in Flesh.
First in Natural Flesh, and he is to redeem us from the NATURAL, to the spiritual, like him, NOT him, but LIKE him, for eternity.

and the root of this blindness is found in Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" this blindness has affected both Jews and Gentiles, in believing the wrong definition, for "ONE".

H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.

[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258

the Satan and his angels has decieved many by the First definition, both Jews and Gentiles. but this blindness is no more because the TRUTH is shining for all to see.

Definition #2. is the correct answer to the "ECHAD". "FIRST", and in the fulness of time, God came in Flesh as the Lord, the Ordinal Last, the "Son".
this is clearly seen in scriptures, God as the FIRST, and the LAST.
Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."
here the LORD, of Deuteronomy 6:4 is clearly the FIRST as the ECHAD says.... but the question is .... is he also the LAST? we say yes, and the scriptures also, lets see it, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."

HOLD IT, is not the LORD .... according Deuteronomy 6:4 is the First? yes, and he the LORD said that he is "ALSO" the Last. that the Tanakh speaking.

NOW, the New Testament,
A. Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"
Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

B. Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:"

C. Revelation 2:8 "And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;"

D. Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

YES, this is the LORD JESUS/YESHUA, in glorification.

now a revelation Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."
see that term "WITH" in the First is "WITH" the Last, now John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

the Word, the Lord Jesus, the Ordinal LAST is God shared in flesh. just as Phil 2:6 states.was with God, his OWN Spirit per Isaiah 63:5.

all this blindness stem from the misunderstanding of "ONE" in Deuteronomy 6:4.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
So do you or don't you believe Ecclesiastes 4:8: There is one [that is alone], and he has not a second; yea, he has neither son nor brother."
Don't even bother with this guy. I gave him the same verse and some grammar on echad, bad, and yachid, and he couldn't address it.
 

101G

Well-known member
@Jewjitzu, the other guy.... (smile).... Oh well
may I ask, "is your God the First and the Last?", for the "LORD", per Deuteronomy 6:4 is the "FIRST", and get this, the "LAST" according to
Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."

well now JESUS/YESHUA states he's the First and the Last. which means JESUS/YESHUA is the "IAM" of the OT and NT. the same one person.
is this correct? ..... (smile)... yes or no.

remember, it's "This guy". :cool:

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
@Jewjitzu, the other guy.... (smile).... Oh well
may I ask, "is your God the First and the Last?", for the "LORD", per Deuteronomy 6:4 is the "FIRST",
No mention of first in this verse, but I agree God is the First. The Father of Eternity of course would be.

and get this, the "LAST" according to
Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."

well now JESUS/YESHUA states he's the First and the Last. which means JESUS/YESHUA is the "IAM" of the OT and NT. the same one person.
is this correct? ..... (smile)... yes or no.

remember, it's "This guy". :cool:

PICJAG, 101G.
Yep, this would be the Father. Isaiah 43:10 states no god would be formed after Him. Definitely Jesus was formed. It doesn't matter what the NT teaches in your mind.
 

101G

Well-known member
I'm sorry. This gal?

Either way, you didn't have a good response.
No mention of first in this verse, but I agree God is the First. The Father of Eternity of course would be.


Yep, this would be the Father. Isaiah 43:10 states no god would be formed after Him. Definitely Jesus was formed. It doesn't matter what the NT teaches in your mind.
YEP that JESUS/YESHUA,

Definitely Jesus was formed.
show that in the scriptures, either OT or NT... (smile). NOW I WARN YOU, I have put that in BIG letters so you want have an excues.... :whistle:

now scripture where Jesus/Yeshua the Son of MAN was Formed...... I can't wait to hear this answer...

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
I will set the stage for the discussion.
Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"
here the word "ONE" is
H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258

God is a plurality of a ECHAD, in an ordinal designation of First and Last. and this First and Last signify, Ordinal FIRST/Father/LORD, and the same one Spirit, in the ECHAD, the Ordinal LAST/Son/Lord.

PICJAG, 101G.
Your ordinal example is fouled up. Two different persons are not 1, that's two.

First and last, is another way of saying alone, there is no one else.

You're scenario has two.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
YEP that JESUS/YESHUA,
Actually, Tanakh doesn't support a son in the creation process, but you know that already.

show that in the scriptures, either OT or NT... (smile). NOW I WARN YOU, I have put that in BIG letters so you want have an excues.... :whistle:
It's common sense he was formed in a womb.

Isaiah 44:2, and others
This is what the LORD says— he who made you, who formed you in the womb, and who will help you: Do not be afraid, Jacob, my servant, Jeshurun, whom I have chosen.

Psalm 22:10, ascribed to Jesus by Christians, rotfl...
From birth I was cast on you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God.

now scripture where Jesus/Yeshua the Son of MAN was Formed...... I can't wait to hear this answer...

PICJAG, 101G.
Sure. The very words "son of man". Rotfl...

Numbers 18:15, and others
The first offspring of every womb, both human and animal, that is offered to the LORD is yours. But you must redeem every firstborn son and every firstborn male of unclean animals.
 

101G

Well-known member
Your ordinal example is fouled up. Two different persons are not 1, that's two.

First and last, is another way of saying alone, there is no one else.

You're scenario has two.
Jewjitzu, you ERROR, and that's your problem, YOU DON'T KNOW, listen, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."
ok now, HOW MANY is "I" one person right, I the LORD, the same LORD at Deuteronomy 6:4, is WITH the Last, sound like two persons? no, now this, Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." HOW MANY person is "ME?", one the same ONE "LORD"

now this clear up the matter, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."

the First and the LAST is the SAME one PERSON.

and the Holy Spirit reveals it to us how the First and the Last is the same ONE person who is the "LORD" of Deuteronomy 6:4 ... :cool: YIKES.

it's found in the OT as well as the NT... (smile).

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Mrs, Jewjitzu, you ERROR, and that's your problem, YOU DON'T KNOW, listen, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."
ok now, HOW MANY is "I" one person right, I the LORD, the same LORD at Deuteronomy 6:4, is WITH the Last, sound like two persons? no, now this, Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." HOW MANY person is "ME?", one the same ONE "LORD"

now this clear up the matter, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."

the First and the LAST is the SAME one PERSON.

and the Holy Spirit reveals it to us how the First and the Last is the same ONE person who is the "LORD" of Deuteronomy 6:4 ... :cool: YIKES.

it's found in the OT as well as the NT... (smile).

PICJAG, 101G.
Yep, same person, but you named two. Rotfl...

I is not We. It's basic grammar.
 
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