God is not disingenuous

TomFL

Well-known member
Is. 45:22 —ESV
“¶ “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.”
take the water of life freely.”

Yet a theology says you cannot turn, cannot take of the water of life freely

God has determined from birth you would be unable to do any of those things

unless he first divinely enables you; actually supplying the water of life (salvation- regeneration ?)

to you himself rather than you taking it
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Is. 45:22 —ESV
“¶ “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.”
take the water of life freely.”

Yet a theology says you cannot turn, cannot take of the water of life freely

God has determined from birth you would be unable to do any of those things

unless he first divinely enables you; actually supplying the water of life (salvation- regeneration ?)

to you himself rather than you taking it
Next time you see a dead corpse offer them a drink of water. Ask them if they are thirsty lol
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Next time you see a dead corpse offer them a drink of water. Ask them if they are thirsty lol
Sorry your faulty understanding does not supplant scripture

s. 45:22 —ESV
“¶ “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.”
take the water of life freely.”

Yet a theology says you cannot turn, cannot take of the water of life freely

God has determined from birth you would be unable to do any of those things

unless he first divinely enables you; actually supplying the water of life (salvation- regeneration ?)

to you himself rather than you taking it
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry your faulty understanding does not supplant scripture

s. 45:22 —ESV
“¶ “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.”
take the water of life freely.”

Yet a theology says you cannot turn, cannot take of the water of life freely

God has determined from birth you would be unable to do any of those things

unless he first divinely enables you; actually supplying the water of life (salvation- regeneration ?)

to you himself rather than you taking it
Ask the dead corpse hey you thirsty !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Ask the dead corpse hey you thirsty !

I think i may be trying to talk to one

However

s. 45:22 —ESV
“¶ “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.”
take the water of life freely.”

Yet a theology says you cannot turn, cannot take of the water of life freely

God has determined from birth you would be unable to do any of those things

unless he first divinely enables you; actually supplying the water of life (salvation- regeneration ?)

to you himself rather than you taking it
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
I think i may be trying to talk to one

However

s. 45:22 —ESV
“¶ “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.”
take the water of life freely.”

Yet a theology says you cannot turn, cannot take of the water of life freely

God has determined from birth you would be unable to do any of those things

unless he first divinely enables you; actually supplying the water of life (salvation- regeneration ?)

to you himself rather than you taking it
Ask the dead corpse, turn unto me !
 

armylngst

Well-known member
Is. 45:22 —ESV
“¶ “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.”
take the water of life freely.”

Yet a theology says you cannot turn, cannot take of the water of life freely

God has determined from birth you would be unable to do any of those things

unless he first divinely enables you; actually supplying the water of life (salvation- regeneration ?)

to you himself rather than you taking it
I figured that you deserve some kind of serious answer.

Actually it was Jesus who says you cannot turn, cannot take of the water of life freely. He clearly stated, in response to the disciples question "Who then can be saved" with (paraphrased) for a corpse, this is impossible. You do realize that God is calling out to those who He has chosen to be saved, and that, by His intervention, His touch, they turn to Him and are saved, according to the good pleasure of His will. Jesus followed this response with "but with God, all things are possible" (become possible I believe some versions say). What you fail to understand is that for us humans, the fact that God chose us means nothing other than, some day, during our walk of life, God is going to turn our life upside down. We don't know that. After our meeting with God, our lives are no longer the same. Everything the Bible says happens when people are saved, occurred because God had determined it as such. (Chose...the elect). No one knows they are of the elect, only God does. No one can brag about being elect, because, first of all I think that means the person isn't actually part of the elect, or God's punishment/chastisement is going to come down pretty hard. (I can already here the belt going through belt loops.) One cannot brag about being chosen, because it was unconditional. There was nothing present in the life of the person that God took notice of. That is why Calvin said that it should bring great joy...to gratitude. Why gratitude? Because no one deserves what God has done. No one makes God's cut, which is to be holy and blameless. No one is.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Is. 45:22 —ESV
“¶ “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.”
take the water of life freely.”

Yet a theology says you cannot turn, cannot take of the water of life freely

God has determined from birth you would be unable to do any of those things

unless he first divinely enables you; actually supplying the water of life (salvation- regeneration ?)

to you himself rather than you taking it
Who do you think owned the first believing mind? So, who believed first, was it God or man?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I figured that you deserve some kind of serious answer.

Actually it was Jesus who says you cannot turn, cannot take of the water of life freely. He clearly stated, in response to the disciples question "Who then can be saved" with (paraphrased) for a corpse, this is impossible. You do realize that God is calling out to those who He has chosen to be saved, and that, by His intervention, His touch, they turn to Him and are saved, according to the good pleasure of His will. Jesus followed this response with "but with God, all things are possible" (become possible I believe some versions say). What you fail to understand is that for us humans, the fact that God chose us means nothing other than, some day, during our walk of life, God is going to turn our life upside down. We don't know that. After our meeting with God, our lives are no longer the same. Everything the Bible says happens when people are saved, occurred because God had determined it as such. (Chose...the elect). No one knows they are of the elect, only God does. No one can brag about being elect, because, first of all I think that means the person isn't actually part of the elect, or God's punishment/chastisement is going to come down pretty hard. (I can already here the belt going through belt loops.) One cannot brag about being chosen, because it was unconditional. There was nothing present in the life of the person that God took notice of. That is why Calvin said that it should bring great joy...to gratitude. Why gratitude? Because no one deserves what God has done. No one makes God's cut, which is to be holy and blameless. No one is.
Poor consideration of context

In Matthew it has to do with the rich

Matt. 19:23–26 —KJV
Ҧ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.”

as in Mark and Luke

and it has nothing to do with a total inability from birth
 

e v e

Super Member
Is. 45:22 —ESV
“¶ “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.”
take the water of life freely.”

Yet a theology says you cannot turn, cannot take of the water of life freely

God has determined from birth you would be unable to do any of those things

unless he first divinely enables you; actually supplying the water of life (salvation- regeneration ?)

to you himself rather than you taking it


it’s not much what a soul can choose in this prison-earth but of course a soul chooses to come to Him and stay with Him .
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Is. 45:22 —ESV
“¶ “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.”
take the water of life freely.”

Yet a theology says you cannot turn, cannot take of the water of life freely

Actually if we are walking in the same light and that same light being the truth found in believing as Christ believed in the reality of God, then we too have fellowship one with another in the reality of God.

Has God determined us for Himself our beginning and end or do we do that for Him?

So, why aren't you walking in the light Tom?

God has determined from birth you would be unable to do any of those things
Are you a unbeliever? Then why are you thinking like and for the unbeliever? Because if you have already been saved and YOUR rebirth “determined”, then it is YOUR rebirth that has been determined from eternity and not your physical birth at all, but your spiritual birth.
unless he first divinely enables you; actually supplying the water of life (salvation- regeneration ?)

You cannot know the truth and reality of anything until you believe it.
to you himself rather than you taking it

You cannot know the truth and reality of God unless you have been reborn and born from above.

There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:1-8)
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Is. 45:22 —ESV
“¶ “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.”
take the water of life freely.”

Yet a theology says you cannot turn, cannot take of the water of life freely

God has determined from birth you would be unable to do any of those things

unless he first divinely enables you; actually supplying the water of life (salvation- regeneration ?)

to you himself rather than you taking it
TomL; after Grace, we can turn...

Any verse you find that says we can believe, Grace is presumed to have already prevened the Will; right?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
TomL; after Grace, we can turn...

Any verse you find that says we can believe, Grace is presumed to have already prevened the Will; right?
Absolutely 100% correct

Grace comes first

not regeneration , not irresistible grace but grace
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Absolutely 100% correct

Grace comes first

not regeneration , not irresistible grace but grace
Whether we call the Effect of Grace Illumination, Regeneration, or the Cutting of the Word of God; God's Effect Prevenes the Will, right?
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Do you mean has God determined our every thought, desire and deed ?

No

hahaha, no and strawman. No, I have not determined that God has “determined our every thought, desire and deed” for us. Just the beliefs that have determined our rebirth that has made us conscious of the truth and reality of God. Also, anything after that we strive in and with the Spirit of truth (Holy Spirit) as our guide.

and when He may come -- the Spirit of truth -- He will guide you to all the truth, for He will not speak from Himself, but as many things as He will hear He will speak, and the coming things He will tell you; (John 16:13)
 
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