God Rocks!

Can a Unitarian god Create a Rock so big, he cannot lift it?

Hi ReverendRV,

If a particular Unitarian is going according to the biblical view of omnipotence in the Bible, then I would say No.

Let's say that nothing is impossible with God. For example of the Omnipotent Paradox, "God can pop out of existence and not pop back into existence?" Maybe you believe God can perform such actions. Then he cannot perform all actions, yet, on the other hand, if God cannot limit its own actions, then that is something God cannot do. The Scriptural context in Matthew 19:26 has God performing the "possible" from his omnipotence. Which implies that the possible is restricted only in respect of salvation. But Scripturally there is an over all broad extensive application of God's omnipotence that is restricted to his nature where the property of omnipotence is derived.

We perceive God performing the impossible from the standpoint of us being human beings since we are not omnipotent. But from God's standpoint he performs what is only possible in context of his essential nature or the Divine Nature. And within the scope of a quantifier God is free to perform all though things that are possible from his omnipotent only within the scope or within the means that "He cannot go against his own nature" i.e. or all things that are possible in accordance to his nature. In 2 Timothy 2:13 "if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself." God is omnipotent and nothing is impossible, not in the sense of unlimited capacity, but only in the extended range and scope of his essential nature. He cannot disown himself of who he is essentially. Even if God became powerless, he still remain all powerful.
 
Hi ReverendRV,

If a particular Unitarian is going according to the biblical view of omnipotence in the Bible, then I would say No.

Let's say that nothing is impossible with God. For example of the Omnipotent Paradox, "God can pop out of existence and not pop back into existence?" Maybe you believe God can perform such actions. Then he cannot perform all actions, yet, on the other hand, if God cannot limit its own actions, then that is something God cannot do. The Scriptural context in Matthew 19:26 has God performing the "possible" from his omnipotence. Which implies that the possible is restricted only in respect of salvation. But Scripturally there is an over all broad extensive application of God's omnipotence that is restricted to his nature where the property of omnipotence is derived.

We perceive God performing the impossible from the standpoint of us being human beings since we are not omnipotent. But from God's standpoint he performs what is only possible in context of his essential nature or the Divine Nature. And within the scope of a quantifier God is free to perform all though things that are possible from his omnipotent only within the scope or within the means that "He cannot go against his own nature" i.e. or all things that are possible in accordance to his nature. In 2 Timothy 2:13 "if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself." God is omnipotent and nothing is impossible, not in the sense of unlimited capacity, but only in the extended range and scope of his essential nature. He cannot disown himself of who he is essentially. Even if God became powerless, he still remain all powerful.
Can a Monotheistic Trinitarian God make a rock so big he can't lift?

I'm not asking if you believe in the Trinity, I'm asking you if God could make a rock big enough that Jesus Christ couldn't pick it up during his earthly Ministry? Jesus could not lift Mount Everest. I'm not denying he could tell the mountain to be cast it into the Sea, I'm asking that if Monotheistic Trinitarianism is considered for the sake of argument, God could make a rock so big that the GodMan couldn't lift it...

Do you agree?
 
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Can a Monotheistic Trinitarian God make a rock so big he can't lift?

No. For the same reasons I've mention above in my first reply to you. Omnipotence belongs to the Divine Nature and the Persons function according to the essential nature. Unless a Trinitarian hold to a view of Functional Kenoticism.

I'm not asking if you believe in the Trinity, I'm asking you if God could make a rock big enough that Jesus Christ couldn't pick it up during his earthly Ministry? Jesus could not lift Mount Everest. I'm not denying he could tell the mountain to be cast it into the Sea, I'm asking that if Monotheistic Trinitarianism is considered for the sake of argument, God could make a rock so big that the GodMan couldn't lift it...

Do you agree?

No. Omnipotence is from the Divine Nature of Christ. To limit the omnipotence is to limit the Father and the Holy Spirit too. Unless someone holds to a Monothelitism framework (properties like the will and attributes like omnipotence belongs to the Person and not to the Nature).
 
No. For the same reasons I've mention above in my first reply to you. Omnipotence belongs to the Divine Nature and the Persons function according to the essential nature. Unless a Trinitarian hold to a view of Functional Kenoticism.



No. Omnipotence is from the Divine Nature of Christ. To limit the omnipotence is to limit the Father and the Holy Spirit too. Unless someone holds to a Monothelitism framework (properties like the will and attributes like omnipotence belongs to the Person and not to the Nature).
The problem with saying No is that in Monotheistic Trinitarianism, the Divine Communicatio Idiomatum Jesus suppressed the expression of his Divinity so he could live on the level of an unfallen Adam; and Adam couldn't lift Mount Everest...

So God created a rock he couldn't pick up...

Would you agree; regarding Monotheistic Trinitarianism that is?
 
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The problem with saying No is that in Monotheistic Trinitarianism, the Divine Communicatio Idiomatum Jesus suppressed the expression of his Divinity so he could live on the level of an unfallen Adam; and Adam couldn't lift Mount Everest...

So God created a rock he couldn't pick up...

Would you agree; regarding Monotheistic Trinitarianism that is?

Communication of properties/attributes doesn't teach "suppression" of attributes from the Divine Nature.
 
Communication of properties/attributes doesn't teach "suppression" of attributes from the Divine Nature.
But the Bible teaches it...

Philippians 2:6 NIV; Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

But the question is about a Monotheistic Trinitarian God, not a Unitarian god. Trinitarianism teaches that the Divinity, suppresses the expression of his Divine privileges to live on the level of an unfallen Adam. Nothing I have said is contrary to Monotheistic Trinitarianism; right?

So the Communication of the Second Adam's finite Human Properties to his infinite Divine Nature, at the time of his earthly Ministry; means the Divine Person Jesus Christ couldn't lift Mount Everest...

Right?

Isn't it true that a Monotheistic Trinitarian God can do something a Unitarian god can't? Create a rock he can't lift? If so, isn't the Trinitarian God greater because he can find a way to do both?

A Monotheistic Trinitarian God also cannot create a rock he can't lift, because we have our Being in him. God encompasses All Matter, so he would Logically always be greater than the biggest rock...
 
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But the Bible teaches it...

Philippians 2:6 NIV; Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

But the question is about a Monotheistic Trinitarian God, not a Unitarian god. Trinitarianism includes the Divinity suppressing the expression of his Divine privileges to live on the level of an unfallen Adam. Nothing I have said is contrary to Monotheistic Trinitarianism; right?

So the Communication of the Second Adam's finite Human Properties to his infinite Divine Nature, at the time of his earthly Ministry; means the Divine Person Jesus Christ couldn't lift Mount Everest...

Right?

Isn't it true that a Monotheistic Trinitarian God can do something a Unitarian god can't? Create a rock he can't lift?

No. The second person in the trinity didn't suppressed anything from his Divine Nature. And any limitations you see is from the human nature. The Son "emptying himself" doesn't have its vantage point in "the form of God," rather, the vantage point is what he is "taking on" which is "the form of the servant" which causes him to "humbled himself by becoming obedient". The human weakness of sufferings produces his obedience. Because the Son has appropriated all the human nature's laws, properties, and functions of the flesh that became his own. The Son who is "equal to the Father" in the Divine Nature is also "equal with us" in the human nature which is lower than the angels.

There is a twofold application: "economically submitting himself in the cooperation to his own flesh" (not according to the Divine Nature) and "he submits to the Father's will for the purpose of redemption of mankind" according to the human nature. He simply allows the human nature to go naturally through the course of his own biological laws of nature and to function through its own laws such has: having a real physical birth, to grow bodily, to increase in wisdom, to be accident prone, and to have sufferings. He didn't prevent this weakness from happening, but allowed the human nature to go through the suffering itself while experiencing.
 
No. The second person in the trinity didn't suppressed anything from his Divine Nature. And any limitations you see if from the human nature. The Son "emptying himself" doesn't have its vantage point in "the form of God," rather, the vantage point is what he is "taking on" which is "the form of the servant" which causes him to "humbled himself by becoming obedient". The human weakness of sufferings produces his obedience. Because the Son has appropriated all the human nature's laws, properties, and functions of the flesh that became his own. The Son who is "equal to the Father" in the Divine Nature is also "equal with us" in the human nature which is lower than the angels.

There is a twofold application: "economically submitting himself in the cooperation to his own flesh" (not according to the Divine Nature) and "he submits to the Father's will for the purpose of redemption of mankind" according to the human nature. He simply allows the human nature to go naturally through the course of his own biological laws of nature and to function through its own laws such has: having a real physical birth, to grow bodily, to increase in wisdom, to be accident prone, and to have sufferings. He didn't prevent this weakness from happening, but allowed the human nature to go through the suffering itself while experiencing.
Okay, thanks. I suppose my point is for those who believe that Jesus didn't want to take advantage of his Divine privileges. If you're not going to believe the Verse, this is as far as I can go. Thanks for the participation...

Monotheistic Trinitarianism doesn't hold to Kenosis. When I Categorized the discussion as Trinitarian as opposed to Unitarian, many Truths of Monotheistic Trinitarianism should be assumed by the Knowledgeable, without having to speak of them...

When you said, "Because the Son has appropriated all the human nature's laws, properties, and functions of the flesh that became his own"; you should have agreed...
 
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Okay, thanks. I suppose my point is for those who believe that Jesus didn't want to take advantage of his Divine privileges. If you're not going to believe the Verse, this is as far as I can go. Thanks for the participation...

I appreciate your time. And thanks for your short discussion. Me, Jamesh, and the Layman are not Functional Kenotic Trinitarians. Also I believe in that verse, but we disagree on the interpretation.
 
Can a Unitarian god Create a Rock so big, he cannot lift it?

Frankly, this entire question is a category error. Other's have already given you a clear answer to this with respect to God's divine nature, but this is my two cents. Everything about this question is vacuous. What is big, what is move, what is lift? All of this is defined by God to begin with. None of these concepts are defined outside of God's world, and therefore, none of them constitute a measure as to measure what God can do. He made the world as he saw fit. He acts in time as he sees fit. Outside of silly questions that deny the creator/creation distinction, the concept of omnipotence is perfectly understandable. God has the power, potency, to do whatever he wants in time and space, and therefore, he can do whatever more power would allow him to do. But, infinite power does not negate the logic of the world he created that is based in his own nature. This question is basically asking "Can God be irrational?", and the answer is no because God is not irrational.

Can a Monotheistic Trinitarian God make a rock so big he can't lift?

I'm not asking if you believe in the Trinity, I'm asking you if God could make a rock big enough that Jesus Christ couldn't pick it up during his earthly Ministry? Jesus could not lift Mount Everest. I'm not denying he could tell the mountain to be cast it into the Sea, I'm asking that if Monotheistic Trinitarianism is considered for the sake of argument, God could make a rock so big that the GodMan couldn't lift it...

Do you agree?

According to Jesus' human nature, as he "emptied himself", assuming a human perspective, yes, obviously. According to Jesus' divine nature, no. See above.

God Bless
 
Can a Unitarian god Create a Rock so big, he cannot lift it?

That's an oxymoron. Since the Unitarian God created the universe, this hypothetical rock would at least be equal to all of the matter in the universe. If this rock existed it wouldn't be gravitationally bound to anything else and, therefore, wouldn't need to be lifted to a higher point or level, assuming the universe is not infinite in size.

If the universe is infinite then this question is pointless; if it is not infinite then God is still bigger than this hypothetical rock since the heavens are His throne. We're talking about the sky, the place where stars are, the universe.

Psalm 66
1This is what the LORD says:
“Heaven is My throne,
and earth is My footstool.
What kind of house will you build for Me?
Or where will My place of repose be?

If heaven is only big enough for God's throne, imagine what his house looks like.
 
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