God said "Apology not accepted"

5wize

Well-known member
so sad too bad.

God didn't accept Cain's "sacrifice."

Cain didn't follow the rules.
Why do you care about babies dying in the womb if Christianity claims no one is innocent anyway and they will be born into sin and debt to God? Better to skip it all right? What's the problem?
 

Five Solas

Active member
Why would god not accept merely a sincere apology? He's omniscient, he would know if it was sincere. Why did he have to go and kill somebody for it?
Great question. You're obviously a smart guy, so either you've never been exposed to the gospel, or you're trolling fast food American expressions of Christianity. :)

He would accept your sincere apology, right this very moment. But the apology does not not provide the propitiation for your sin that the justice of God requires. That only comes through the person and work of Christ, which you phrased as why did he have to go and kill somebody for it. Your apology is merely the instrument (faith) through which the righteousness of Christ is imputed to your account and by which you are declared righteous in his sight. The offense against God being infinite, only Christ as God could satisfy it. Sin entering the world through Adam, only a human, again Christ, could satisfy it. As sincere as you may be, you lack the nature to satisfy the justice of God.

Simplest analogy is a judge sentencing you for a crime despite your sincere apology, because the penalty must still be satisfied. If someone pays the penalty in your place, a judge can set you free.
 

5wize

Well-known member
Great question. You're obviously a smart guy, so either you've never been exposed to the gospel, or you're trolling fast food American expressions of Christianity. :)

He would accept your sincere apology, right this very moment. But the apology does not not provide the propitiation for your sin that the justice of God requires. That only comes through the person and work of Christ, which you phrased as why did he have to go and kill somebody for it. Your apology is merely the instrument (faith) through which the righteousness of Christ is imputed to your account and by which you are declared righteous in his sight. The offense against God being infinite, only Christ as God could satisfy it. Sin entering the world through Adam, only a human, again Christ, could satisfy it. As sincere as you may be, you lack the nature to satisfy the justice of God.

Simplest analogy is a judge sentencing you for a crime despite your sincere apology, because the penalty must still be satisfied. If someone pays the penalty in your place, a judge can set you free.
Actually raised Christian, Baptized Episcopalian at 5 yrs. old. Confirmed in the Lutheran Catechism at 14, and attended private Lutheran academies for 4 years where the Bible was digestated cover to cover twice.

I am aware of the apologetic you put forth, but you stating things like "only a human, again Christ, could satisfy it" puts you in a position of God in that you have backed the almighty into your own declarative box. Do you have the spiritual authority of a creator God to declare to Him that he could never have decided to do it differently? No, such imperative declarations on behalf of your beliefs that dictate to an omnipotent God what His limits were, a God that controls all at his will, is a blasphemy.

Remember, I did not commit the crime either. It is an inherited debt. Eternal damnation violates an eye for an eye. But that's the way of God. Absolutes are not in play. The wave of His sleeve is subjective and defies any absolutes.
 

Furion

Active member
Then there is no use.

I think you've stumbled upon the correct answer in some regard.

There is no use trying to hide the heart.

No standing on principle, certainly no guile, no telling me this or that about your deeply held thinking.

Nope, the Lord sees right through man's feeble head games.

It takes you, becoming as a child, dropping your pretense of sophistication and intelligence, thinking you actually know something about God and life, and trust in Him. What He tells you is to love Him above all, He is the only one looking out for you, and love your fellow man as yourself.

Trusting these are the things God is looking for from you, one could think of it as the blind faith in love. After all, you are powerless to make up for your shortcomings. But you can allow the Spirit to teach you actual love.

Or, keep up your defenses, throw love out as a childish way of life, and beat your own drum.

It's not called the narrow road for nothing.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
But His are pretty crazy then right? I mean from a common sense point of view. Nobody we know would think that having somebody killed would absolve us of anything right?
Somebody I KNOW does. "Shall the thing made say to him that made it: "Why hast thou made me thus" ?? YOUR, and MY opinion of His ways is simply unimportant.
 

5wize

Well-known member
I think you've stumbled upon the correct answer in some regard.

There is no use trying to hide the heart.

No standing on principle, certainly no guile, no telling me this or that about your deeply held thinking.

Nope, the Lord sees right through man's feeble head games.
Then God would also see that original sin is not my fault, but this type of insight to seek what we both know is true justice is not part of God's lexicon, so why trust his x-ray vision either?
It takes you, becoming as a child, dropping your pretense of sophistication and intelligence, thinking you actually know something about God and life, and trust in Him. What He tells you is to love Him above all, He is the only one looking out for you, and love your fellow man as yourself.

Trusting these are the things God is looking for from you, one could think of it as the blind faith in love. After all, you are powerless to make up for your shortcomings. But you can allow the Spirit to teach you actual love.

Or, keep up your defenses, throw love out as a childish way of life, and beat your own drum.

It's not called the narrow road for nothing.
So when I drop my guard and my internal "Let us reason together" God given capacity and simply trust, how would I fare if I decided to do that on the Haj among my Muslim friends and influences? Would god grant me discernment? Why did he fail to do so for billions that followed your advise? Is God's discernment weak in the face of lies when I open myself to trust?
 
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5wize

Well-known member
Shall the thing made say to Him who made it: "WHY hast thou made me thus"?
I think that would be a healthy curiosity and the type of curiosity that spurned on advancements in social welfare, medicine, art, science, and any other improvements that God abandoned us to.
 

Furion

Active member
Then God would also see that original sin is not my fault, but this type of insight to seek we both know is true justice is not part of God's lexicon, so why trust his x-ray vision either?

So when I drop my guard and my internal "Let us reason together" God given capacity and simply trust, how would I fare if I decided to do that on the Haj among my Muslim friends and influences? Would god grant me discernment? Why did he fail to do so for billions that followed your advise? Is God's discernment weak in the face of lies when I open myself to trust?

Have you reasoned with God over your sin?

What did He say?
 

Five Solas

Active member
Actually raised Christian, Baptized Episcopalian at 5 yrs. old. Confirmed in the Lutheran Catechism at 14, and attended private Lutheran academies for 4 years where the Bible was digestated cover to cover twice.

I am aware of the apologetic you put forth, but you stating things like "only a human, again Christ, could satisfy it" puts you in a position of God in that you have backed the almighty into your own declarative box. Do you have the spiritual authority of a creator God to declare to Him that he could never have decided to do it differently? No, such imperative declarations on behalf of your beliefs that dictate to an omnipotent God what His limits were, a God that controls all at his will, is a blasphemy.

Remember, I did not commit the crime either. It is an inherited debt. Eternal damnation violates an eye for an eye. But that's the way of God. Absolutes are not in play. The wave of His sleeve is subjective and defies any absolutes.
To use your terminology, meh.

You asked in the OP Why would god not accept merely a sincere apology? I gave you a summary of the biblical data. You're free to reject it as you see fit. I only know that there are plenty of Christians running around claiming that a sincere apology is the basis of justification, and that's simply not a biblical claim, nor the gospel.

Remember, I did not commit the crime either. It is an inherited debt.

Inherited propensity, not debt, and that from your federal representative, one that you ratified with your own actions.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
I think that would be a healthy curiosity and the type of curiosity that spurned on advancements in social welfare, medicine, art, science, and any other improvements that God abandoned us to.
God never "Abandoned" US, but we, Starting with Israel in the old testament, have abandoned HIM constantly - just like you did.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Why do you care about babies dying in the womb if Christianity claims no one is innocent anyway and they will be born into sin and debt to God? Better to skip it all right? What's the problem?
Which is why I NEVER Grieve for the murdered babies, since THEY have it easy - It's the murderers, and contract murderers, who face judgement, and have to bear their guilt.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
Actually raised Christian, Baptized Episcopalian at 5 yrs. old. Confirmed in the Lutheran Catechism at 14, and attended private Lutheran academies for 4 years where the Bible was digestated cover to cover twice.

I am aware of the apologetic you put forth, but you stating things like "only a human, again Christ, could satisfy it" puts you in a position of God in that you have backed the almighty into your own declarative box. Do you have the spiritual authority of a creator God to declare to Him that he could never have decided to do it differently? No, such imperative declarations on behalf of your beliefs that dictate to an omnipotent God what His limits were, a God that controls all at his will, is a blasphemy.

Remember, I did not commit the crime either. It is an inherited debt. Eternal damnation violates an eye for an eye. But that's the way of God. Absolutes are not in play. The wave of His sleeve is subjective and defies any absolutes.
Not enough rituals to be born again. Nothing to indicate you were born again. Pharisees also required being born again. You could resume a Pharisee lifestyle.
 

5wize

Well-known member
Have you reasoned with God over your sin?
What did He say?
The biblical era where that was possible ended in the iron age. It's all one way jabber and wait for some situationally detached transcendent sign now like cancer, aliens, or a Blue Jay showing up at the right moment... you know, solid stuff like that. Stuff that makes you feel real confident that you are in commune with God.
 

5wize

Well-known member
Not enough rituals to be born again. Nothing to indicate you were born again. Pharisees also required being born again. You could resume a Pharisee lifestyle.
I wouldn't think that you of all people AN would have missed the point of the post. This is so hard to believe. Not like you at all.

You seem the type that doesn't get the joke until you are driving home or laying in bed and suddenly burst out with inappropriate laughter.
 
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