God said "Apology not accepted"

Furion

Active member
The biblical era where that was possible ended in the iron age. It's all one way jabber and wait for some situationally detached transcendent sign now like cancer, aliens, or a Blue Jay showing up at the right moment... you know, solid stuff like that. Stuff that makes you feel real confident that you are in commune with God.

So then it is a no, you are beyond such simpleton worries.

I guess you'll just need to reason with yourself.
 

5wize

Well-known member
So then it is a no, you are beyond such simpleton worries.

I guess you'll just need to reason with yourself.
Did you even contemplate the answer I gave even a little? Is it not true that the era of man walking with God in such communion - in a way that your original question can be answered credibly - did not already pass? What "signs" do you get?
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Why would god not accept merely a sincere apology? He's omniscient, he would know if it was sincere. Why did he have to go and kill somebody for it?
Ray Comfort uses the Court analogy. The Defendant says he knows the Judge is a Good man, and he tells the Judge that he's really, truly sorry; and throws himself on the Mercy of the Court. Ray Comfort tells us the Judge says it is precisely because he is a Good man that he has to find the Defendant Guilty. Biblically speaking, the Judge would be crooked if he didn't do his job. But when his fine is Paid and his sentence is served by the Defendant's friend, Justice has been satisfied...
 

5wize

Well-known member
Ray Comfort uses the Court analogy. The Defendant says he knows the Judge is a Good man, and he tells the Judge that he's really, truly sorry; and throws himself on the Mercy of the Court. Ray Comfort tells us the Judge says it is precisely because he is a Good man that he has to find the Defendant Guilty. Biblically speaking, the Judge would be crooked if he didn't do his job. But when his fine is Paid and his sentence is served by the Defendant's friend, Justice has been satisfied...
I think you are white-washing the point of the OP. Sure you can put a logical framework around it, but not a justifiable one. Human sacrifice is not a necessity for forgiveness, especially to an omnipotent God. It's an obvious bow to ancient and discredited paganism.
 

5wize

Well-known member
To use your terminology, meh.

You asked in the OP Why would god not accept merely a sincere apology? I gave you a summary of the biblical data. You're free to reject it as you see fit. I only know that there are plenty of Christians running around claiming that a sincere apology is the basis of justification, and that's simply not a biblical claim, nor the gospel.

Remember, I did not commit the crime either. It is an inherited debt.

Inherited propensity, not debt, and that from your federal representative, one that you ratified with your own actions.
It does not answer the question though. The question is why given that forgiveness does not require human sacrifice. It's an obvious bow to ancient and discredited paganism.

Again, with terms never mentioned in the Bible such as "Inherited propensity" you make your own apology for the much clearer words of the Bible on that matter.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I think you are white-washing the point of the OP. Sure you can put a logical framework around it, but not a justifiable one. Human sacrifice is not a necessity for forgiveness, especially to an omnipotent God. It's an obvious bow to ancient and discredited paganism.
Fair enough...
 

Five Solas

Active member
It does not answer the question though. The question is why given that forgiveness does not require human sacrifice. It's an obvious bow to ancient and discredited paganism.

Again, with terms never mentioned in the Bible such as "Inherited propensity" you make your own apology for the much clearer words of the Bible on that matter.
You're free to reject it. It nevertheless remains that a mere apology, however sincere, is not capable of providing a basis for justification.

Murderer: Yes, judge, I raped and murdered that woman, but I'm sincerely sorry for it.
Judge: Oh, I didn't realize you were sincerely sorry for it. In that case, you're free to go.
 

Furion

Active member
Did you even contemplate the answer I gave even a little? Is it not true that the era of man walking with God in such communion - in a way that your original question can be answered credibly - did not already pass? What "signs" do you get?

Literally, I don't think there is anything I haven't contemplated on this subject.

It is at times difficult to cut through your sarcasm.

You brought up original sin, I'm not catholic.

If you want to do the Haj thingy, go for it. What you fail to realize is God will direct your steps, and I am not a step counter.

The element you miss is the Holy Spirit in your life, and that ain't up to me.
 

5wize

Well-known member
Literally, I don't think there is anything I haven't contemplated on this subject.

It is at times difficult to cut through your sarcasm.

You brought up original sin, I'm not catholic.

If you want to do the Haj thingy, go for it. What you fail to realize is God will direct your steps, and I am not a step counter.

The element you miss is the Holy Spirit in your life, and that ain't up to me.
What you fail to realize is that He doesn't. The proof is the cultural differences that take affect when somebody does exactly what you say.... drop the self and ask God to guide you. All roads from that point of self abandon do not lead to Christianity so you have no earthy evidence that your God is involved in that process, yet you still give that advise against all temporal as well as spiritual feedback.
 

Furion

Active member
What you fail to realize is that He doesn't. The proof is the cultural differences that take affect when somebody does exactly what you say.... drop the self and ask God to guide you. All roads from that point of self abandon do not lead to Christianity so you have no earthy evidence that your God is involved in that process, yet you still give that advise against all temporal as well as spiritual feedback.

Again, your failures are not mine.

That heaven is silent for you is not my fault. If you approach God with the heart you display here, none of this is surprising.

You can try your psychoanalysis of spiritual things, it just tells me you look for rationalizations to explain your own experience, Dr. Wize.
 

5wize

Well-known member
You're free to reject it. It nevertheless remains that a mere apology, however sincere, is not capable of providing a basis for justification.

Murderer: Yes, judge, I raped and murdered that woman, but I'm sincerely sorry for it.
Judge: Oh, I didn't realize you were sincerely sorry for it. In that case, you're free to go.
Bad analogy.

Try this:

Me: What? Why am I here? Who are you?
God: Look punk. I don't care what you did or did not do in your very, very, very short life, you inherited a debt and you did not propitiate to me to resolve it. I don't care that your culture did not introduce me to you, or that others that did choose me couldn't make any sense of it to your liking. I owed you no visitation or favors to explain this debt even though the debt was to me and I made the rules. Eternal torture in a lake of fire for you.... oh.... and no soup either.
 

Five Solas

Active member
Bad analogy.

Try this:

Me: What? Why am I here? Who are you?
God: Look punk. I don't care what you did or did not do in your very, very, very short life, you inherited a debt and you did not propitiate to me to resolve it. I don't care that your culture did not introduce me to you, or that others that did choose me couldn't make any sense of it to your liking. I owed you no visitation or favors to explain this debt even though the debt was to me and I made the rules. Eternal torture in a lake of fire for you.... oh.... and no soup either.
No worries. That describes a religion other than Christianity, so I'll let one of its adherents argue for it.
 

Beloved Daughter

Well-known member
Please tell me you're trolling. I really want to believe it. :)

I would like to have a sincere discussion with an atheist, but I have found that more times than not, they think it's fun to jerk people around.

My cousin is Dan Barker. He and his wife Annie Laurie Gaylor run the FFRF (freedom from religion foundation). They are not capable of such a discussion. I could say more, but I don't want to upset his children, should they see this.
 

Five Solas

Active member
I would like to have a sincere discussion with an atheist, but I have found that more times than not, they think it's fun to jerk people around.

My cousin is Dan Barker. He and his wife Annie Laurie Gaylor run the FFRF (freedom from religion foundation). They are not capable of such a discussion. I could say more, but I don't want to upset his children, should they see this.
Yeah, I know what you mean. There are all different kinds of atheists, just as with any group, including Christians. The atheists here, for instance, have to endure all manner of nonsense. You can have a sincere discussion here, but it takes ignoring those who won't and being respectful of those who will. You know, kinda like acting as an adult. I've had several good discussions and acquaintances here spanning years back into the previous forums, even as I do in my private life, so there's no doubt about it.
 
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