"God the Son"

Theo1689

Well-known member
A number of Arians make a big deal that the Scriptures never specifically refer to Jesus as "God the Son". This tells me that they aren't interest in the truth, they ae simply looking for arbitrary arguments in order to deny the deity of Christ.

In point of fact, there are a NUMBER of different ways that Christ is identified as "deity" in Scripture.

God the Father

John 6:27 ... For on him God the Father has set his seal.”​
1Cor. 15:24 ... when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father ...​
Gal. 1:1 ... but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, ...​
Eph. 5:20 giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father ...​
Eph. 6:23 ... love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.​
Phil. 2:11 ... Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.​
Col. 3:17 ... giving thanks to God the Father through him.​
1Th. 1:1 ... To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father ...​
1Tim. 1:2 ... Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father ...​
2Tim. 1:2 ... Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father ...​
Titus 1:4 ... Grace and peace from God the Father ...​
James 1:27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: ...
1Pet. 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, ...​
2Pet. 1:17 For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, ...​
2John 3 Grace, mercy, and peace will be with us, from God the Father ...​
Jude 1 To those who are called, beloved in God the Father ...​

Now, most of us agreet that monotheism is true, that only one God exists. So if that's the case, then why do John, Paul, Peter, and Jude feel the need to specify not just "God", but "God the Father"? I would assert that the qualification of "the Father" is to distinguish him from "God the Son". Otherwise, the Bible authors would simply say, "grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father".


The Son of God

There are two phrases in Scripture that (IMO) are not sufficiently understood or appreciated by many Bible readers, "the son of man", and "the son of God". In the OT, the "son of man" is used as a synonym for "man". And in fact, in the poetic literature, where we see Hebraic parallelism", where one verse describes "man", and then the parallel verse says the same thing about "the son of man".

In the same way, the phrase, "the son of God" is a reference to deity, whoever is identified as "the son of God" is asserted to be deity. That this was the Biblical understanding is demonstrated clearly in Scripture:

John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.” 18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

John 19:7 The Jews answered him, “We have a law, and according to that law he ought to die because he has made himself the Son of God.

John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
John 10:31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” 33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God. 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— 36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

So basically Christ being called "the Son of God" is equivalent to your understanding of what He would have meant had He used the expression, "the Son of God". Identifying Himself as "the Son of God" was a claim to deity ("god"), which both the Jews and Jesus affirmed. Far from denying the charge, Christ affirmed His deity and appealed to Scripture (Ps. 82) to affirm it.


"Lord"

This is actually very ironic, considering the position the JW's hold on the name of God. Historically, the Jews cared very much about the name of God, and were very cognizant of the commandment against using the Lord's name in vain. And so to ensure that they never broke that commandment, they would never use God's name. So whenever they referred to God, or read Scripture containing God's name, they would replace His name with "adonai", which is Hebrew for "Lord" (analogoust the Greek, "adonai"). Now you can agree or disagree with this practice, belief it was beneficial or evil, but whatever your personal opinions, it is simply an historical fact. And this is the reason (whether you agree with it or not) why term, "Lord" was used by the Jews to refer to "God" for thousands of years, why the LXX contains "adonai" where the Hebrew contains the Tetragrammaton, and why most English Bible translations use "LORD" (small caps) whenever the Hebrew contains the Divine Name. Now you can agree or disagree with this practice, belief it was beneficial or evil, but whatever your personal opinions, it is simply an historical fact.

Having said that, we have to try to understand and appreciate the impact of thousands of years of Jews using the term, "Adonai" ("Lord") whenever they refer to God.
The Lord is God.
The Lord is God.
God is the Lord.


Fast forward to the New Testament, and Jesus' continuous teaching to the first century Jews. The NT repeatedly refers to "The LORD Jesus Christ", and repeatedly affirm that "Jesus is LORD, to the glory of God the Father". This would be a constant affirmation by Jesus and the Apostles that Jesus is God, and was never denied.

Further, Scripture teaches:

1Cor. 12:3 ... no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit.

Well, it's very easy to say that Jesus is our "master", or Jesus is "the one we obey", that doesn't need the Holy Spirit to assert that, whether it is made sincerely or not.

But one needs the Spirit to say that Jesus is God, which is what this verse is actually teaching.
 
Are you claiming that the Bible DOES refer to Jesus Christ as "God the Son"? Do you have a verse?


Because God IS the Father.


Where is Jesus Christ called "God the Son" in the Bible?


God IS the Father. Plus, for people who are saved, He is THEIR Father (1 John 3:1-2).


So Adam was deity? (Luke 3:38)


If the Jews had thought Jesus was claiming to be God, they would have rightly written him off as a lunatic. They knew that he was claiming to be the Messiah, and they knew the Messiah would speak for God.


That part is true. JWs are wrong for insisting that using LORD instead of YHWH was inspired by Satan.


When the Bible refers to the Lord Jesus Christ, it's kurios, not the tetragrammaton. Also, the vast majority of English translations do not use all caps (LORD), they use Lord.


That's an assertion based on your belief.
Both Jesus and the Apostles were fully aware that the Father is the only true God.


That's another assertion based solely on your Trinitarian belief, and not the teaching of the Bible.
The Bible teaches that the Father alone is God.
Jesus teaches-The one who sent him= THE ONLY TRUE GOD-The Father sent Jesus. ( in every translation on earth)
Trinity teachers-3 make up the only true God=Father, son and holy spirit.

Theo-when ones teachers do not match Jesus' truth--RUN FROM THEM.
 
Jesus teaches-The one who sent him= THE ONLY TRUE GOD-The Father sent Jesus. ( in every translation on earth)

<sigh>
I'm very sorry for your blindness.

You don't seem to understand that there is a HUGE difference between:

"The Father is the ONLY true God" (Scripture); and
"ONLY the Father is the true God" (NOT Scripture)

What you continually do (and apparently you are blind to) is that you are taking the SECOND statement (which is NOT Scripture), and falsely projecting that onto what Scripture ACTUALLY teaches.

Of COURSE, according to the Trinity, Jesus refers to the Father as the "only true God"!

What else would you expect?!
Seriously?!

Do you expect Jesus to be an atheist, and deny that the Father is God?
Do you expect Jesus to be a polytheist, and claim that the Father is only one of "many" gods?

No.
Jesus knows the Father is God.
And Jesus knows that ONLY ONE GOD EXIST.

But this is about the identity of the Father.
It has NO BEARING on the identity of the Son.
And as such it is in NO WAY a denial of the Trinity, or that Jesus is God.

And if you can't understand that, I'm afraid I can't help you.

Trinity teachers-3 make up the only true God=Father, son and holy spirit.

It's not "made up".
It's the God of the Bible.

Theo-when ones teachers do not match Jesus' truth--RUN FROM THEM.

And that is why we MUST run away from YOU, because YOU are the false teacher of all false teachers! You deny Jesus' truth that HE is God.

There are MANY passages which teach that Jesus is God.
There are ZERO passages which deny that Jesus is God.
John 17:3 IN NO WAY denies that Jesus is God.

The only way you TWIST it to try to deny that is because you rely on sinful errant rationalization, by ADDING to Scripture something NEVER STATED in SCRIPTURE.

John 17:3 NEVER says, "Jesus is not God".
 
<sigh>
I'm very sorry for your blindness.

You don't seem to understand that there is a HUGE difference between:

"The Father is the ONLY true God" (Scripture); and
"ONLY the Father is the true God" (NOT Scripture)

What you continually do (and apparently you are blind to) is that you are taking the SECOND statement (which is NOT Scripture), and falsely projecting that onto what Scripture ACTUALLY teaches.

Of COURSE, according to the Trinity, Jesus refers to the Father as the "only true God"!

What else would you expect?!
Seriously?!

Do you expect Jesus to be an atheist, and deny that the Father is God?
Do you expect Jesus to be a polytheist, and claim that the Father is only one of "many" gods?

No.
Jesus knows the Father is God.
And Jesus knows that ONLY ONE GOD EXIST.

But this is about the identity of the Father.
It has NO BEARING on the identity of the Son.
And as such it is in NO WAY a denial of the Trinity, or that Jesus is God.

And if you can't understand that, I'm afraid I can't help you.



It's not "made up".
It's the God of the Bible.



And that is why we MUST run away from YOU, because YOU are the false teacher of all false teachers! You deny Jesus' truth that HE is God.

There are MANY passages which teach that Jesus is God.
There are ZERO passages which deny that Jesus is God.
John 17:3 IN NO WAY denies that Jesus is God.

The only way you TWIST it to try to deny that is because you rely on sinful errant rationalization, by ADDING to Scripture something NEVER STATED in SCRIPTURE.

John 17:3 NEVER says, "Jesus is not God".
Its 100% fact of recorded history-Catholicism added the holy spirit in 381 ce at the council of Constantinople to make God a trinity. No trinity was ever served by a true follower prior to 381 ce. When Jesus and every bible writer were taught about God in the synagogues and temples=the Abrahamic God= a single being God-YHVH(Jehovah), the Father. The same God the Israelite religion serves from Moses on up until this very day=100% fact of life.
 
Are you claiming that the Bible DOES refer to Jesus Christ as "God the Son"? Do you have a verse?


Because God IS the Father.


Where is Jesus Christ called "God the Son" in the Bible?


God IS the Father. Plus, for people who are saved, He is THEIR Father (1 John 3:1-2).


So Adam was deity? (Luke 3:38)


If the Jews had thought Jesus was claiming to be God, they would have rightly written him off as a lunatic. They knew that he was claiming to be the Messiah, and they knew the Messiah would speak for God.


That part is true. JWs are wrong for insisting that using LORD instead of YHWH was inspired by Satan.


When the Bible refers to the Lord Jesus Christ, it's kurios, not the tetragrammaton. Also, the vast majority of English translations do not use all caps (LORD), they use Lord.


That's an assertion based on your belief.
Both Jesus and the Apostles were fully aware that the Father is the only true God.


That's another assertion based solely on your Trinitarian belief, and not the teaching of the Bible.
The Bible teaches that the Father alone is God.


If I may -- From what you have written, I don't believe you are a JW. Please read and abide by the Moderator's directive at the top of the messages.
 
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