God vs Human Rights

The Pixie

Well-known member

Furion

Well-known member
You said: "One can make a case for termites." Well put you money where your mouth is, and do just what you said you could. Make a case for termites.

This is not rocket science. You made the claim. All I am asking is that you substantiate that claim.

Or is the problem here that your statement "One can make a case for termites." is the stupid that we are doubling down on?
Your stupidity was qualifying your statement with...."As a theist...."

Now, I won't move forward until you explain why you stated such a thing, and why you won't admit it. It's your own doing.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
You obviously don't understand the subject matter with the depth required to make any claim concerning my veracity.
You are taking the subject matter to your domain
In this brief exchange I can see you are not familiar at all with the landscape of moral thinking.
But you cannot answer a simple question.
Yet I did.
There is no answer to a who or where.
So either you are too obtuse to understand what was clearly explained - whether you agree with it or not
There you go...I did not ask for "your" explanation
- or your faith has made you deaf to simple explanations that are not supernaturally sourced.
Or is it your faith in time-sensitive matters that you retrieved from your time travels?
Again, it's called moral or ethical realism. You can google it.
Calling human rights moral or ethical realism does not change the fact that you cannot show where or who it originated from.
You can look that up easily. I am just here to tell you that it is a well sourced theory of human ethics and rights backed by some of the greatest thinkers in moral philosophy around.
That does not tell me where or who it originated from...
Not necessary given recorded history. The arc of ethical advancement is recorded history. That is mostly what history contains.
Then you should have an exact time in your recorded history when human rights were given to all humans and by whom.
Moses never existed. He was a mythical hero, an invention brought back to Hebrew culture after the exile ended from the disparate lands that the Jews returned from - like Egypt.
And you know that because of your time travels?
Scholarship.
So you have a scholarship in time travel?
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Human rights are given by humans, and apply to all humans (though some countries ignore them). Humans made the list, and proclaimed the authority for them. Hence, human rights.
That is my point...Now tell me when those was human rights were given to humans and who were the humans who made up those rights to give it to other humans and by what authority?
Just to be clear, I am an atheist.
Psalm 14:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
I do not think God exists, let alone created rights for anyone.
What you think is of no consequence in the matter. You are trying to tell me who are the humans that invented human rights and exactly when it was invented and given to other humans.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
My question: "Still can't come up with a single example, parrot boy?"

Your answer: "No."

LOL
Still can't come up with anything meaningful? Don't worry, I'm sure you will one day. Although I rather think it will be like the monkeys with the typewriters, monkey boy.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Some people do good things in their life, some people bad.
true
God ignores all that, however, only cares about whether they love him or not.
why would you say that? you don't believe God exist
Flatter his ego, and you go to heaven.
You don't believe that either
Fail to do so, you go to hell.
neither do you believe this
He is God; he is way more powerful than us, just as we are way more powerful than termites. So yes, he could do what he likes.
And you are a troll you don't believe God exists.
But let us not pretend he loves us, any more than we love termites.
You are the only pretender here...you pretend to be a believer but you are an athiest.
 

5wize

Well-known member
You are taking the subject matter to your domain

But you cannot answer a simple question.

There is no answer to a who or where.
Because if you read the answer for comprehension you would understand that there wasn't a who or a where. there was an "us" and a "just about everywhere". you missed when btw.... ans: evolving still.
There you go...I did not ask for "your" explanation

Or is it your faith in time-sensitive matters that you retrieved from your time travels?

Calling human rights moral or ethical realism does not change the fact that you cannot show where or who it originated from.
Again, not understanding answers that don't fit into that puckered-up tight envelop of your presuppositions.
That does not tell me where or who it originated from...
Because that's a dumb question. There was no who or where. There was/is an "us" and an "everywhere we are", all happening in "every moment we inhabit".
Then you should have an exact time in your recorded history when human rights were given to all humans and by whom.
Dumb thought.
And you know that because of your time travels?
I know it because I studied it.
So you have a scholarship in time travel?
Nope. Just in how to debunk bad history... especially the mythologically infused supernatural kind.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Because if you read the answer for comprehension you would understand that there wasn't a who or a where. there was an "us" and a "just about everywhere".
So where is your evidence of this happening to us everywhere? Because if that were true there would be no need for it to be written anywhere and humans would have abided by those rules making it impossible for slavery to exist.
you missed when btw.... ans: evolving still.
Evolving into what? There are still humans not following those rights you claim to be evolving in them.
Again, not understanding answers that don't fit into that puckered-up tight envelop of your presuppositions.
you didn't answer the question
Because that's a dumb question.
the response is based on ignorance. You are claiming that man is evolving morally but every day there are countless immoral acts taking place by the same humans that you claim to be morally evolved. Why are the prisons full to capacity in every country?
There was no who or where. There was/is an "us" and an "everywhere we are", all happening in "every moment we inhabit".
you are being silly ...the who would be us and the where would be everywhere.
Dumb thought.
because you cannot respond
I know it because I studied it.
In your time travel.
Nope. Just in how to debunk bad history... especially the mythologically infused supernatural kind.
You are not debunking anything, actually, you are creating bad history. You cannot show an evolution of morality by man. Men are naturally immoral. Men would kill each other for no reason thousands of years ago and the same today. Morality is taught not evolved.
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
why would you say that? you don't believe God exist
Sorry, I should have said that the God that Christianity posits only cares about whether he gets his ego flattered. Exalt him, go to heaven. Fail to exalt him, go to hell. I must admit that I felt it was implicit in what I said.

Christianity says we should be moral in our lives, but the God they tell us about does not really care about that, just as long as we flatter his ego.

And you are a troll you don't believe God exists.
That sound disturbingly like you think all non-Christians are trolls. I hope I am misunderstanding you.

You are the only pretender here...you pretend to be a believer but you are an athiest.
I am sorry if you feel you have been misled; that was certainly not my intent. I have always been quite open about being an atheist. I must admit to being quite surprised you have made that mistake, given the OP.
 

Algor

Well-known member
I am sorry if you feel you have been misled; that was certainly not my intent. I have always been quite open about being an atheist. I must admit to being quite surprised you have made that mistake, given the OP.
LOL. Without intending any double meaning, I think you have made it abundantly clear that you are an atheist!
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
Your stupidity was qualifying your statement with...."As a theist...."
Just to be clear, I qualified a question to you with "As a theist....".

Apologies, I have always thought you were a Christian; I did not realise you are not even a theist.

Now, I won't move forward until you explain why you stated such a thing, and why you won't admit it. It's your own doing.
I said "As a theist...." because I thought you are a Christian,, which would also make you a theist.

You started your post "I think a consistent and moral viewpoint for the atheist would not diminish other creatures, nor elevate man." and I was wanting to see what the view from the other side of the fence was. Rather than the atheist position, the theist position. And, as I mistakenly thought you were a theist, I asked you, ."As a theist...." what is your view on it.
 

Furion

Well-known member
Just to be clear, I qualified a question to you with "As a theist....".

Apologies, I have always thought you were a Christian; I did not realise you are not even a theist.


I said "As a theist...." because I thought you are a Christian,, which would also make you a theist.

There is no answering your question "as a Christian."

You could say "as a entomologist"

But I'm not an entomologist.

What would work for you, and for me, is "as a non expert"
You started your post "I think a consistent and moral viewpoint for the atheist would not diminish other creatures, nor elevate man." and I was wanting to see what the view from the other side of the fence was. Rather than the atheist position, the theist position. And, as I mistakenly thought you were a theist, I asked you, ."As a theist...." what is your view on it.
Take a listen to her maybe, I can track down more if you'd like.


Difficult for me to believe you'd argue against the idea but whatever, enjoy.

The lowly termite is an integral part of a working system. Remove it and no man could really tell you the extent of the effects on the system.
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
There is no answering your question "as a Christian."
Again, apologies for thinking you are a Christian or theist.

You could say "as a entomologist"

But I'm not an entomologist.
I never thought you are, so it never crossed my mind to ask for your view on that basis.

What would work for you, and for me, is "as a non expert"
Sure.

As I said, I thought you were a theist, and could give the opposite perspective.

Take a listen to her maybe, I can track down more if you'd like.
No need to bother. Like I said, I was just curious in the theist perspective to counter balance my own.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Sorry, I should have said that the God that Christianity posits only cares about whether he gets his ego flattered. Exalt him, go to heaven. Fail to exalt him, go to hell. I must admit that I felt it was implicit in what I said.
You should have said nothing...You already said you believe god does not exist...You are only making yourself look silly.
Christianity says we should be moral in our lives, but the God they tell us about does not really care about that, just as long as we flatter his ego.
Why are you speaking about things that you don't know or believe?
That sound disturbingly like you think all non-Christians are trolls. I hope I am misunderstanding you.
Nope ,I said you are a troll, you are pretending to be a believer in your responses. That is deception a common trend among non-believers.
I am sorry if you feel you have been misled; that was certainly not my intent.
I have not been misled, you were very deceptive from the get-go. I suppose deception is your intent.
I have always been quite open about being an atheist.
I am not questioning that...Your posts are recorded on CARM where you post as a believer.
I must admit to being quite surprised you have made that mistake, given the OP.
I made no mistake, your posts are there as record.
 

Furion

Well-known member
Again, apologies for thinking you are a Christian or theist.


I never thought you are, so it never crossed my mind to ask for your view on that basis.


Sure.

As I said, I thought you were a theist, and could give the opposite perspective.


No need to bother. Like I said, I was just curious in the theist perspective to counter balance my own.
What view could there possibly be but scientific?

And really it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out ants, bees, termites, worms and the like are pretty important to our ecosystem.

Humans, no so much. Or rather, not at all.

It is true man was charged to care for the earth. We seem to fail at it often.
 
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