rossum
Well-known member
You will have a stretch to justify a mass drowning of pregnant women, thus killing their unborn children, as an act of love.
God vs Human Rights
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Algor
Well-known member
Its a matter of degree. Love can certainly punish, but there is a point where punishment becomes abuse. It is a matter of judgement, isn't it?
Oh, brother ...
You asked, "So when the Bible says 'great love for us' it does not mean "great love for us."
Again, it depends upon the context. You gave no context for the quote.
Tell me, to whom is the speaker speaking? It's important to know that because God doesn't love everyone. He hates sinners. You're unbelief identifies you as a sinner because unbelief is a sin. So, in the quote you gave, "great love for us," you are not in the group, "us."
Context ...
I have a question for you, were those pregnant women upstanding and upright according to the law, or were they lawbreakers, deserving of death?
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Whateverman
Well-known member
That's one way to spin it, yes. Another is to point out that love cannot be love if (for example) it entails hatred; that's not really an issue of personal preference, but of blatant linguistic contradiction.
A blanket can't be red if there are green patches on it; a meal can't be vegetarian if there's meat in it; a person can't be dry if they're dripping wet. Words have well-established meanings - and if I may be blunt: Christian apologists routinely change the meanings of words to suit their apologetics.
You can't love a person and torture them.
Period, full stop.
That is a simple fact, independent of my "desires".
You hate.
Algor
Well-known member
Everybody has to make up their own mind. Nobody can do that for you.
I am curious how you arrive at God is against human rights when the people who wrote article 9 also believe God created humans.
Are murderers guilty of death?
What's article nine?
Algor
Well-known member
Or you have to leave the decision of whom to defer to, to each of our own arbitrary whims. Sooner or later, it is up to you.
(Parenthetically, I do not think careful, reasoned assessments are "arbitrary whims". I think people make their calls as best they can, with the knowledge that they can be in error. )
That would extend to our choice of whom and what we should trust, too, as far as I can see.
rossum
Well-known member
What part of "Romans 5:8" do you have a problem with. That gives the context, it is a Bible verse from one of the Epistles. Surely you have a copy of the Bible to hand?
Algor
Well-known member
Do you mean sentenced to death?
As i said, you gave no context for the quote ... until now.
rossum
Well-known member
I have a question for you, were the unborn children those pregnant women were carrying upstanding and upright according to the law?
Scripture says, "the wages of sin is death." (Rom 6:23), proving the only ones who die are sinners. Do babies die? Of course they do. Thereby proving that one does not become a sinner when one sins, but that one sins because is a sinner.
Scripture is consistent.
most people do not know what freedom is.
If freedom is a human notion then humans would be free to do whatever they please.
I don't see how what most people consider has to do with what God does.
rossum
Well-known member
So no humans at all are upstanding and upright according to the law because all humans die. Jesus died on the cross; does that mean that He was not upstanding and upright according to the law? You seem to be getting your theology in a tangle here.
Scripture says He is without sin. (Heb 4:15)