God wanted human sacrifices for atonement of sin?

Open Heart

Well-known member
Beats going to a priest wouldn,t you say!!! ;)
Actually, I think confession is one of the most helpful traditions that catholics have. It gets them to examine their conscience and repent on a constant basis. That's very helpful towards building virtue and drawing nearer to God.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
I'm a Jew. Your assumption until you have evidence otherwise is to think that I understand my own religion, such as how to keep the shabbat. You had no evidence that I didn't understand the shabbat. It's really low for you to make that accusation.

The spiritual understanding is resting in the Messiah, Jesus Christ who put an end to my transgressions by removing my sin nature. I don't have to fight my nature to be righteous. So, you see, if you understood the spiritual meaning of the Sabbath you would have already accepted your Messiah.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
I'm a Jew. Your assumption until you have evidence otherwise is to think that I understand my own religion, such as how to keep the shabbat. You had no evidence that I didn't understand the shabbat. It's really low for you to make that accusation.
BTW, I didn't ask you if you know "how to keep the Sabbath? Of course you know how. But not what it truly represents. REST. But not a physical rest; a spiritual rest. Jesus is God and the Creator.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
The spiritual understanding is resting in the Messiah, Jesus Christ who put an end to my transgressions by removing my sin nature. I don't have to fight my nature to be righteous. So, you see, if you understood the spiritual meaning of the Sabbath you would have already accepted your Messiah.
CharismaticLady, yes, you DO have to fight your nature to be righteous. If you did not fight, your moral muscles would become weak, and sin would run rampant in your life.

None of this has anything to do with the Sabbath, the resting on the seventh day. "Resting in the messiah" is not the spirit of hte law, it is the changing of the law to something completely different.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
BTW, I didn't ask you if you know "how to keep the Sabbath? Of course you know how. But not what it truly represents. REST. But not a physical rest; a spiritual rest. Jesus is God and the Creator.
It is a rest from labor. If you change it to a spiritual rest, then you are essentially NOT keeping the sabbath.
 

Lee Magee

Member
The Sabbath in the Torah is part of the ancient Palestinian agricultural calendar system, so Sabbaths are meaningless outside that cultural context.

Judaism is not an ancient religion but the religion of the Talmud, therefore newer then Christianity and as little resemblances to any religion practised in Palestine before the 1st century CE.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Correct. I follow the spiritual meaning of the Sabbath, something you don't know about. You only keep the Sabbath one day a week, where we keep the spiritual meaning 24/7/365. This actually helps save us. Those Christians that don't keep the spiritual meaning of the Sabbath, but keep the letter of the Sabbath law instead will not be saved, UNLESS they do the spiritual as well as the letter. It is only the spiritual meaning that has the advantage of eternal life, not the letter.

cc: @Open Heart
Do you understand the letter of the law is the spirit as well? The will, desire, ruach, of God is for us to keep the Shabbat, the Sabbath, the 7th day. No other day of the week is associated with this connection to Creation nor God's complete rest.

It's obvious you don't keep either aspects as your focus is on a created being and not the Creator of all.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
If I could keep all the commandments I wouldnt need a Savior would I? Yeshua simplified all the commandments into 2.

Mark 12:30-31​

30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[a] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] There is no commandment greater than these.”
Actually, Jesus learned this from the Rabbis of the time. You need the details in Torah to know how to love God and man.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
The Sabbath in the Torah is part of the ancient Palestinian agricultural calendar system, so Sabbaths are meaningless outside that cultural context.

Judaism is not an ancient religion but the religion of the Talmud, therefore newer then Christianity and as little resemblances to any religion practised in Palestine before the 1st century CE.
Judaism has evolved in time, but can be traced all the way back to the giving of the law at Sinai. Essentially, Judaism is just a word that refers to keeping the commandments of the Torah.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
CharismaticLady, yes, you DO have to fight your nature to be righteous. If you did not fight, your moral muscles would become weak, and sin would run rampant in your life.

None of this has anything to do with the Sabbath, the resting on the seventh day. "Resting in the messiah" is not the spirit of hte law, it is the changing of the law to something completely different.

That is the reason for the New Covenant. You don't have to fight to be righteous. Now, you, yourself may because you do not have the power of Jesus who is God, the Creator, within you. But I have Him abiding in me, and I am in Him and we are one. He never sinned, and because of the resurrection, He gave me His power not to sin willfully either. He removed all of my transgressions, plus the nature that caused them and replaced it with a divine nature. The only thing left that needs to grow to perfection is the fruit of the Spirit, but those imperfections are cleansed immediately as long as I walk in the Spirit, which I do. I hear His voice, and always feel His love. Because of that, I can love others.

Because of Jesus we have the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy NOW:

To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,

THIS is the New Covenant. The Ten Commandments were in place because of the sin nature which came about when Adam sinned, causing his pure human nature (free will) to be corrupted until it was removed, but only those who accept the Messiah, Jesus Christ. Now that the sin nature has been removed in those who willingly receive His indwelling to free us from sin, which He offers to the whole world to make the whole world His spiritual Israel, there is no more struggle with sin anymore. I've had His power in my for the past 45 years. You should have seem the first 30 years of going to church WITHOUT His Spirit. That is why you see Christians sinning. They do not have the Spirit in them, and without the Spirit of Christ indwelling them, they do not belong to Jesus. Satan doesn't care if you believe in Jesus, as long as you've accepted Him for selfish reasons - to sin with no condemnation. God does not accept them. This is what the New Testament says, but you and Jewitzu hate the New Covenant, and until you stop the hatred and stop fighting your own Messiah, you will always struggle with sin.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
That is the reason for the New Covenant.
Stop it right there. The New Covenant is for the world to come. It has not yet happened. We know it has not yet happened because the Law is not written on everyone's hearts -- we still have to teach children right and wrong. We know because not everyone knows God -- there are plenty of atheists around.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
Do you understand the letter of the law is the spirit as well? The will, desire, ruach, of God is for us to keep the Shabbat, the Sabbath, the 7th day. No other day of the week is associated with this connection to Creation nor God's complete rest.

It's obvious you don't keep either aspects as your focus is on a created being and not the Creator of all.

This is totally wrong. The part of God called the Word, emptied Himself of His deity to become implanted in Mary. She bore Jesus Christ. The Word was not a created being. Because of the sin nature, there was no man that could give his life to reconcile us to God. And the blood of bulls and goats couldn't even come close. It had to be repeated over and over. Jesus' death for three days reconciled mankind to God, defeating Satan in those who accept His gift to us. You don't believe in Him, so haven't received any of the promises. The freedom from sin results in resting in Christ, and our abiding in Him, and He in us is a Sabbath rest. Not just once a week, but every moment of every day.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
It is a rest from labor. If you change it to a spiritual rest, then you are essentially NOT keeping the sabbath.

To the Jew it is a rest from physical labor. But anyone can rest from labor. You don't have to be Jewish to rest from labor. There is nothing spiritual about it. But the supernatural God living inside of you IS SPIRITUAL.
 

Lee Magee

Member
Judaism has evolved in time, but can be traced all the way back to the giving of the law at Sinai. Essentially, Judaism is just a word that refers to keeping the commandments of the Torah.

Sinai is a deserted wasteland, no ancient people lived there. The Laws in the Torah are traceable to the Persians, since they the ones who ruled over ancient Palestine. (Ezra 7).

Xenophon, Cyropaedia 1.2.2
Such then were the natural endowments, physical and spiritual, that he is reputed to have had; but he was educated in conformity with the laws of the Persians; and these laws appear in their care for the common weal not to start from the same point as they do in most states. For most states permit every one to train his own children just as he will, and the older people themselves to live as they please; and then they command them not to steal and not to rob, not to break into anybody's house, not to strike a person whom they have no right to strike, not to commit adultery, not to disobey an officer, and so forth; and if a man transgress anyone one of these laws, they punish him.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
This is totally wrong. The part of God called the Word, emptied Himself of His deity to become implanted in Mary. She bore Jesus Christ. The Word was not a created being. Because of the sin nature, there was no man that could give his life to reconcile us to God. And the blood of bulls and goats couldn't even come close. It had to be repeated over and over. Jesus' death for three days reconciled mankind to God, defeating Satan in those who accept His gift to us. You don't believe in Him, so haven't received any of the promises. The freedom from sin results in resting in Christ, and our abiding in Him, and He in us is a Sabbath rest. Not just once a week, but every moment of every day.
The Torah is the word of God, the covenant between God and Israel. Anything which teaches contrary to the Torah is not of God. That includes religions which abrogate the law, such as Christianity.

I love and serve the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as revealed in the Torah. I do not serve the Christian idol of flesh, Jesus, whom I know not to be the messiah.

You are not free from sin, and "resting in christ" is not keeping the sabbath.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
To the Jew it is a rest from physical labor. But anyone can rest from labor. You don't have to be Jewish to rest from labor. There is nothing spiritual about it. But the supernatural God living inside of you IS SPIRITUAL.
To anyone who accepts that the Torah is God's word, it is rest from labor on the seventh day.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
Sinai is a deserted wasteland, no ancient people lived there. The Laws in the Torah are traceable to the Persians, since they the ones who ruled over ancient Palestine. (Ezra 7).

Xenophon, Cyropaedia 1.2.2
Such then were the natural endowments, physical and spiritual, that he is reputed to have had; but he was educated in conformity with the laws of the Persians; and these laws appear in their care for the common weal not to start from the same point as they do in most states. For most states permit every one to train his own children just as he will, and the older people themselves to live as they please; and then they command them not to steal and not to rob, not to break into anybody's house, not to strike a person whom they have no right to strike, not to commit adultery, not to disobey an officer, and so forth; and if a man transgress anyone one of these laws, they punish him.
sorry, but the laws predate the persian empire. we'll have to agree to disagree.
 

Lee Magee

Member
The Torah are laws meant for Judea, since they is no Judea anymore, the Torah no longer applies to anybody, they are nothing but relics of the ancient near eastern past. Can't have law without a state or judges.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
The Torah are laws meant for Judea, since they is no Judea anymore, the Torah no longer applies to anybody, they are nothing but relics of the ancient near eastern past. Can't have law without a state or judges.
There was no Judea when the Torah laws were first given. And given that Judaism is the religion of Jews today, I would not reduce them to "nothing but relics." As long as the People of Israel exist, there is a place for the laws of the Torah.
 
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