God wanted human sacrifices for atonement of sin?

sk0rpi0n

Active member
No mention of the angel being Jesus. You have an active imagination.

Ha! Christians have no problem saying Jesus appeared as an angel but then they'll turn around and accuse the Jehovah's Witnesses of heresy for teaching that Jesus was once an angel!

It's all so inconsistent that it's laughable.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Ha! Christians have no problem saying Jesus appeared as an angel but then they'll turn around and accuse the Jehovah's Witnesses of heresy for teaching that Jesus was once an angel!

It's all so inconsistent that it's laughable.
Agreed.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Yes, that distinction is only in the New Covenant. It is also part of the Trinity: The Father, The Word, and The Holy Spirit. You obviously won't accept that and I don't expect you to, but that is just one of the mysteries revealed in the New Covenant.
Well the NT is wrong since the Tanakh is clear only the Father created. I don't accept mystery religions.

Yes, and man is made in Their Image as a triune being. We have a body (which correlates to Jesus), a mind (which is the Father) and a heart/conscience (The Holy Spirit.). Just as I am one person. They are one God. Seeing as Jesus was the Word of God, He is just as much God as the Holy Spirit.
This is funny. So each one of your gods is incomplete without the others, and truly not the God. BTW, Jesus didn't have a body at the beginning. ;)

We are just talking about angels, and yes, no angel has been worshiped, and that is the reason why the Angel of the Lord is not a created being. We only find out in the New Testament that the Angel of the Lord, which angels are messengers, was the Word, and then Jesus.
All angels are created. The angel of the Lord was also present at the announcement of Jesus' birth, Matthew 1:20, etc.

I know you won't believe that, but I just want you to have that knowledge.
What you're sharing isn't knowledge.

Even though it was the Angel of the Lord, it was holy ground, because the Angel of the Lord is God, just as the Word is God and so is the Holy Spirit
No, it was holy ground because God spoke there.

It is called a theophany.
Really?

Exactly, so He had to put part of Himself into Mary to produce a being/human that could die.
Which is contradictory since God can't die.

Different kind of flesh. Ishamael was from a carnal relationship. Isaac was from his wife based on a promise.
Still a carnal relationship. Paul's words are worthless.

There were no bulls or goats sacrificed to cover the sins of Gentiles, only Israel. This was a much more powerful sacrifice to cove the whole world and had no precedent for in the past.
Which is false. Gentiles could join Israel. One law for the native and stranger.

As far as the letter of the law, I agree. Sunday is not the Sabbath. In fact a command to worship and on which day is not part of the New Covenant. It is all about wanting to with our heart. And Sunday is resurrection day, without which His sacrifice wouldn't have been ratified.
Then worship on the true Sabbath. The Sabbath was made for man.

Jesus being accepted as the spotless lamb of God is proof He never sinned.
Who said the lamb was accepted?
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
No mention of the angel being Jesus. You have an active imagination.

Ha! Christians have no problem saying Jesus appeared as an angel but then they'll turn around and accuse the Jehovah's Witnesses of heresy for teaching that Jesus was once an angel!

It's all so inconsistent that it's laughable.
Ha! Christians have no problem saying Jesus appeared as an angel but then they'll turn around and accuse the Jehovah's Witnesses of heresy for teaching that Jesus was once an angel!

It's all so inconsistent that it's laughable.
Agreed.

FYI, the JW's are committing heresy by only calling Jesus an angel as opposed to recognizing him as God, as the NT says over and over again. They are not wrong to recognize that Jesus appeared as an angel in the OT, they are wrong to claim he was only an angel. All these "inconsistencies" you guys see are really just ignorance on your part. I wouldn't laugh at my own ignorance, but if that how you like to roll, have fun.

God Bless
 

Lee Magee

Member
angel or ἅγγελος (ángelos) means messenger , where-as in Islam, Jesus is referred as both a prophet and messenger, therefore Jesus is an angel by definition, as is Muhammad. In fact the Arabic word for messenger, رسول (rasūl) comes from προάγγελος (proángelos), the lengthened form of ἅγγελος (ángelos).

It seems people are just mindlessly stacking titles, Jesus is God, Son of God, Prophet, Messiah, Shepherd , King of the Jews, Son of Man e.c.t . Probably a marketing tactic.

For some reason, every single character in the Bible are Prophets according to Islam. Prophet Adam, Prophet Abel, Prophet Noah e.c.t. But not Prophetess Eve of course, since females are lesser people according to them.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
FYI, the JW's are committing heresy by only calling Jesus an angel as opposed to recognizing him as God, as the NT says over and over again. They are not wrong to recognize that Jesus appeared as an angel in the OT, they are wrong to claim he was only an angel. All these "inconsistencies" you guys see are really just ignorance on your part. I wouldn't laugh at my own ignorance, but if that how you like to roll, have fun.

God Bless
Rotfl... I wasn't saying I agreed with the JW stance, but they have a right to argue Christian inconsistencies. So, please don't be ignorant before you post a response.

In my view, Jesus is nothing but a man. That's pretty clear.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
No you didn't. I just showed you that the angel of the lord in the NT isn't Jesus.

J, I showed you that God spoke at the burning bush and was called the Angel of the Lord. Do you actually deny this?

This time read it!

Exodus 3: 2 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”

4 So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”

And he said, “Here I am.”

5 Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” 6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
 

DoctrinesofGraceBapt

Well-known member
FYI, the JW's are committing heresy by only calling Jesus an angel as opposed to recognizing him as God, as the NT says over and over again. They are not wrong to recognize that Jesus appeared as an angel in the OT, they are wrong to claim he was only an angel. All these "inconsistencies" you guys see are really just ignorance on your part. I wouldn't laugh at my own ignorance, but if that how you like to roll, have fun.
Rotfl... I wasn't saying I agreed with the JW stance, but they have a right to argue Christian inconsistencies. So, please don't be ignorant before you post a response.

  • I didn't imply you agreed with the JW stance.
  • JWs have a right to be wrong? Okay.
  • In reality, what you call "Christian inconsistencies" are really just expressions of your ignorance as I've pointed out countless times.

In my view, Jesus is nothing but a man. That's pretty clear.

Jesus was a man; but the only reason why you think he is only a man is because of theological biases that cause you to ignore all evidence to the contrary.

God Bless
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
J, I showed you that God spoke at the burning bush and was called the Angel of the Lord. Do you actually deny this?
No, you're reading into the verses what you want.

This time read it!
Rotfl.... ok, again.

Exodus 3: 2 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush.
So, the angel of the Lord appeared as a flame. This is consistent with Psalm 104:3-4 that says the wind, fire, are angels.

So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”

4 So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”

And he said, “Here I am.”

5 Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” 6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
Yes, God's voice called from the midst of the bush. No different than when His voice spoke on Mt. Sinai.

Deut 4
12And the LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of the words, but saw no form; there was only a voice.

Anything else?
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
I didn't imply you agreed with. the JW stance.
  • JWs have a right to be wrong? Okay.
  • In reality, what you call "Christian inconsistencies" are really just expressions of your ignorance as I've pointed out countless times.
Rotfl... I've pointed out all of your inconsistencies countless times. Oh well.

Jesus was a man; but the only reason why you think he is only a man is because of theological biases that cause you to ignore all evidence to the contrary.
Theological biases work both ways. You've admitted above Jesus was a man. There's not much else to say. ;)

God Bless
He has.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
I'm talking about Moses calling a man who met with Abraham YHWH in Genesis 18-19. You are choosing to look at other passages that are not equalivant in any way given the use of the divine name in Genesis 18-19. Are you using this technique to hide your incompetence from the reader? Why don't you stick with the actual passage. Why don't you quote it? Answer: it is plain, and it condemns you. Good luck rejecting Scripture in light of the opinions of the men.
I'm talking about Moses and the other prophets calling themselves God, or others. Can you tell me the difference?

Show me where you think Moses called a man YHWH? Be very specific.

God Bless
He sure has.
 
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CharismaticLady

Well-known member
No, you're reading into the verses what you want.


Rotfl.... ok, again.


So, the angel of the Lord appeared as a flame. This is consistent with Psalm 104:3-4 that says the wind, fire, are angels.


Yes, God's voice called from the midst of the bush. No different than when His voice spoke on Mt. Sinai.

Deut 4
12And the LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of the words, but saw no form; there was only a voice.

Anything else?

So you are actually believing that there were two beings - the Angel of the Lord as the fire, not the voice, AND God's voice.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
So you are actually believing that there were two beings - the Angel of the Lord as the fire, not the voice, AND God's voice.
You're not listening. Can you read?

The fire is an angel of the Lord, Psalm 104:3-4. The fire didn't speak. Fire is a natural force, element of creation, not a being as you think.

God spoke from the fire as He did at Mt. Sinai.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
Ha! Christians have no problem saying Jesus appeared as an angel but then they'll turn around and accuse the Jehovah's Witnesses of heresy for teaching that Jesus was once an angel!

It's all so inconsistent that it's laughable.

But they think He was a "created" angel, not part of God, the Angel of the Lord.
 

SPOKENWORD

Well-known member
Rotfl... I wasn't saying I agreed with the JW stance, but they have a right to argue Christian inconsistencies. So, please don't be ignorant before you post a response.

In my view, Jesus is nothing but a man. That's pretty clear.
Jesus was more than just a man. He was God in the flesh. You will never understand it because you lack the Godly wisdom. You must be Born Again to understand the things of God.
 
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