God wanted human sacrifices for atonement of sin?

Rachel Redux said:
You don't seem to get it. Jesus said, "I thirst" and that's what was shoved in his mouth. He didn't order a glass of Mogen David. He didn't ask for wine or vinegar or kombucha and he didn't "drink it."
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No, you don't seem to get it. He received it. He drank it. Look up elaben and how it's used. ;)
 
DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Response: It's utter nonsense to correlate God's power as God to the physical strength of his temporary human body. And, if you thought for two seconds about what I was actually saying, you would know that as opposed to claiming I hold to some Greek concept of a physical god.
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So, you have a weakling for a god. Got it. Let's see what else you got...

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
The mocking of the ignorant, or willfully ignorant, doesn't phase me.
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So, your idea of God and that of Phil 2 isn't really the God. I get it. Moving on...

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
In reality, we read everything literally, according to the genre/literary stile. What literary justification do you have for change 13 uses of the divine name for an emissary of YHWH? It seems to me that desperate Jews in 1st-5th century created this absurd excuse as to deny Christianity, and you're just parroting it to me.
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No, it's apparent that at the revelation at Sinai, God said Himself He isn't physical in any form, Deut 4:9,12,15,35, and to teach that to our future generations of children. Moses wrote those verses too. So, when we balance scripture it's with this backdrop and understanding that emissaries act for God and are God before others. Otherwise, you run into your ridiculous bind above having a weakling for a god.

Why don't you think literally in John 20:17 or Mat 16:17?

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Correct, God as God has no physical form. None of that is relevant at all to how he chooses to appear to men in time. As long as you refuse to think through what I'm saying, you're going to make silly arguments like the above that have no application to refute our position.
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Don't you see your dilemma? God as God has no physical form. So God is not man. That's why He uses emissaries in His place.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
You can lie to yourself all you want. It's not convincing anyone. Moses did not say "he is God'. He wrote "Then YHWH said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet." The difference is obvious. You just looking for an excuse to reject what Moses wrote in Genesis 18:1— "And YHWH appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre".
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Exodus 7:1 says Moses was God before Pharaoh. You acknowledge Moses wrote this. There is no "like" in the Hebrew, DOGB. Have you looked at the other occurrences where it says God appeared???

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
As if there is any logical connection whatsoever between recognizing that God can appear as a man and recognizing others who were figuratively called god as divinities. If you're going to make an argument, try using logic.
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There's no logic involved. Tanakh says other humans were God. Why don't you take this literally?

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
FYI, recognizing figurative language as figurative is reading the text literally, aka according to its genre and usage. No one said anything about being woodenly literal as to eliminate all figurative language and patterns of speech. That's not my approach, and if your were honest in your response, you would know that. But, you stoop to treating me like a country bumpkin. Could it be that you know how weak your own position is and this wanted disregard for decorum is all you've got?
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No, so why don't you take Gen 18 as figurative, DOGB?

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
No, because unlike you, I can read things in context and see the difference. You would know this if you bother to read what I say in CONTEXT.
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Yes, context. But you don't take the other mention of humans as God as literal and in that context, right? You're very inconsistent.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
One must actually do more than claim an inconsistency. Scripture says "And YHWH appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre". And, you claim it means "And an emissary of YHWH appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre". Hello? It doesn't say that. That's nonsense. And, it simply doesn't matter what I say about other passages. No matter how inconsistent I am. Your rewriting of the passage is absurd on its face, and you know it. Hence, your continual shift of the blame as opposed to directly dealing with the charge.
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Let's review something here. You said you read all dictionaries and didn't find any reference to an emissary acting as the person sending them. I gave you just that proof in Jewish literature. You don't understand Jewish thinking, nor the cultural ideas of the time. I've answered Gen 18, while you shy away from admitting that your idea of the God of the Universe wrestling and losing against a man is a pathetic mythology carried on from Greek and Roman times.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
God Bless
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As He always does ;)
 
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Jewjitzu said:
Palestinian? Hardly. There's no reason to try and paint a Jewish lineage if that was the case.
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Flavius Josephus also invents a Jewish lineage for himself, so must be a common practise.

I am of the chief family of that first course also; nay, further, by my mother I am of the royal blood; for the children of Asamoneus, from whom that family was derived, had both the office of the high priesthood, and the dignity of a king, for a long time together. I will accordingly set down my progenitors in order. My grandfather's father was named Simon, with the addition of Psellus: he lived at the same time with that son of Simon the high priest, who first of all the high priests was named Hyrcanus. This Simon Psellus had nine sons, one of whom was Matthias, called Ephlias: he married the daughter of Jonathan the high priest, which Jonathan was the first of the sons of Asamoneus, who was high priest, and was the brother of Simon the high priest also. This Matthias had a son called Matthias Curtus, and that in the first year of the government of Hyrcanus: his son's name was Joseph, born in the ninth year of the reign of Alexandra: his son Matthias was born in the tenth year of the reign of Archclaus; as was I born to Matthias in the first year of the reign of Caius Caesar
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Josephus is a very mysterious character, i have theorised he maybe the historical Jesus.
 
Rachel Redux said:
Who cares?
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Apparently you don't, because you know the answer you'll find.

Rachel Redux said:
Jesus was not a Nazarite!
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He surely took the vow for one. But even then, he broke his vow of abstaining from wine. Any religious Jew knows that. ;)

Rachel Redux said:
Have you heard? He turned water into wine and presumably drank some of it, too!
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Rotfl... it was customary to keep grape syrup in jugs/barrels to keep from spoiling. This was then added to water to make wine. That's all that happened. ;)
 
Jewjitzu said:
Where do you find that he flubbed his lineage?


Sure, you theorize lots of stuff and make up your own Hebrew translations.
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The Gospel of Josephus

Flavius Josephus, The Life of Flavius Josephus, Whiston section 1

www.perseus.tufts.edu

Vita 9
about fourteen years of age," he (Josephus) was commanded by all for the love I had to learning

Vita 54-55
12 Jews of Caesaria are sent as a delegation to Ecbatana

Vita 56
70 messengers are sent from Ecbatana to Caesarea

Vita 80
I was now about 30 years old (when i surended to romans)

Vita 86
Josephus’ quarters were in a Galilean village named Cana

Vita 205
Josephus told his friends that "in three days time" he would "quit the district and go home"

Vita 294-297
Jesus, chief magistrate of Tiberias, accuses Josephus of embezzling 20 pieces of gold

Vita 302
They laid hands on him and attempted to kill him

Vita 420-421
Josephus notices three of his acquaintances had been crucified, so he entreats Titus to take them down; two of them die but one recovers
 
Lee Magee said:
The Gospel of Josephus

Flavius Josephus, The Life of Flavius Josephus, Whiston section 1

www.perseus.tufts.edu

Vita 9
about fourteen years of age," he (Josephus) was commanded by all for the love I had to learning

Vita 54-55
12 Jews of Caesaria are sent as a delegation to Ecbatana

Vita 56
70 messengers are sent from Ecbatana to Caesarea

Vita 80
I was now about 30 years old (when i surended to romans)

Vita 86
Josephus’ quarters were in a Galilean village named Cana

Vita 205
Josephus told his friends that "in three days time" he would "quit the district and go home"

Vita 294-297
Jesus, chief magistrate of Tiberias, accuses Josephus of embezzling 20 pieces of gold

Vita 302
They laid hands on him and attempted to kill him

Vita 420-421
Josephus notices three of his acquaintances had been crucified, so he entreats Titus to take them down; two of them die but one recovers
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Why are you quoting this gospel of Josephus? No one accepts it as canon. You might as well quote Harry Potter.
 
Lee Magee said:
The Gospel of Josephus

Flavius Josephus, The Life of Flavius Josephus, Whiston section 1

www.perseus.tufts.edu

Vita 9
about fourteen years of age," he (Josephus) was commanded by all for the love I had to learning

Vita 54-55
12 Jews of Caesaria are sent as a delegation to Ecbatana

Vita 56
70 messengers are sent from Ecbatana to Caesarea

Vita 80
I was now about 30 years old (when i surended to romans)

Vita 86
Josephus’ quarters were in a Galilean village named Cana

Vita 205
Josephus told his friends that "in three days time" he would "quit the district and go home"

Vita 294-297
Jesus, chief magistrate of Tiberias, accuses Josephus of embezzling 20 pieces of gold

Vita 302
They laid hands on him and attempted to kill him

Vita 420-421
Josephus notices three of his acquaintances had been crucified, so he entreats Titus to take them down; two of them die but one recovers
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And who wrote this gospel?
 
Jewjitzu said:
And who wrote this gospel?
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Have you not looked into Josephus, the primary suspect of New Testament authorship.


Josephus, Against Apion 1
I suppose that by my books of the Antiquity of the Jews, most excellent Epaphroditus ... but are translated by me into the Greek

Luke 1:3
It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus

Marcus Mettius Epaphroditus of Chaeroneia (Boeotia) was an Ancient Greek grammarian of the 1st century, After having obtained his liberty, he went to Rome, where he resided in the reign of Nero and down to the time of Nerva, and enjoyed a very high reputation for his learning. He was extremely fond of books, and is said to have collected a library of 30,000 valuable books
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Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews 1
Epaphroditus, a man who is a lover of all kind of learning, but is principally delighted with the knowledge of history.
 
Lee Magee said:
Have you not looked into Josephus, the primary suspect of New Testament authorship.


Josephus, Against Apion 1
I suppose that by my books of the Antiquity of the Jews, most excellent Epaphroditus ... but are translated by me into the Greek

Luke 1:3
It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus



Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews 1
Epaphroditus, a man who is a lover of all kind of learning, but is principally delighted with the knowledge of history.
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Who wrote the gospel of Josephus? I could care less about the NT.
 
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