Whatsisface
Well-known member
American Indians.
God works on the behalf of everyone who comes to him
- Thread starter SteveB
- Start date
stiggy wiggy
Well-known member
By whom? Where, when and how? SPEAK U..... I say, Speak up, son!*
* spoken in my best Foghorn Leghorn voice
stiggy wiggy
Well-known member
Terrible anwwer. There is only one tribe of Jews. And if you ARE dumb enough to think there was only one American Indian tribe, give me the name of its ancestor.
Semmelweis Reflex
Active member
That remains to be seen. In any case you have no authority to speak on anyone's behalf except your own.
What needless harm is that?
It most certainly does not.
Like I said to you, you haven't the authority to make that call. After all, who decides morality? If you say the world then the world will perish by it's own authority. If you say God then the world will be saved by God's authority. It depends, then, upon who you put your faith in. The world or God.
Whatsisface
Well-known member
What stupid post, even for you.
stiggy wiggy
Well-known member
Terrible answer. There is only one tribe of Jews. And if you ARE dumb enough to think there was only one American Indian tribe, give me the name of its ancestor.
Semmelweis Reflex
Active member
Iron chariots.
You are cursed to suffer and die by the very God who saves you from it? I knew a man who amazed me in his knowledge of God. I used to think 'If only I had that much knowledge and faith.' Then one day, he became an atheist and disappeared. The only reason I can see for this is that he lost his wife and young daughter in a very short period of time. One to cancer and the other to an automobile accident.
But, they believe that eventuality with or without Jesus.
How do you know they are anything other than unbelieving. Almost all of the people I met in prison were believers who were all of those things except unbelieving.
Whatsisface
Well-known member
What an idiot you are.
stiggy wiggy
Well-known member
Terrible answer. There is only one tribe of Jews. And if you ARE dumb enough to think there was only one American Indian tribe, give me the name of its ancestor.
Can't do it, I see.
Semmelweis Reflex
Active member
Exactly. The text you quoted applies to them. In a specific time and place.
Everyone thinks God is on their side, and everyone suffers in war. Armageddon will be no picnic.
Obviously that isn't, historically speaking, a good example.
Exactly. The debate is about something else. Ideology and ego. In psychoanalysis ego is the part of the mind that mediates between the conscious and the unconscious and is responsible for reality testing and a sense of personal identity. The ideology becomes greater than reality. The war between believer and unbeliever is fear, not of God, but of ego death.
SteveB
Well-known member
When was the last time you read Joshua?
??
YHVH didn't curse me.
He's saving me from my sin.
Gal 3:10-14 WEB 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse. For it is written, “Cursed is everyone who doesn’t continue in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 Now that no man is justified by the law before God is evident, for, “The righteous will live by faith.” 12 The law is not of faith, but, “The man who does them will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us. For it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree,” 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
So who did you place your trust in?
Not what, but whom?
Sad. I've lost numerous friends and family members from a variety of illnesses, car accidents, etc..
It's part of living on earth following the consequences of sin.
Ecc 9:2 WEB All things come alike to all. There is one event to the righteous and to the wicked; to the good, to the clean, to the unclean, to him who sacrifices, and to him who doesn’t sacrifice. As is the good, so is the sinner; he who takes an oath, as he who fears an oath.
By trusting Jesus, we will be saved from the judgment due sin.
And what makes you think that "anything other than unbelieving" is an acceptable thing?
Jesus said in John 16
Joh 16:8-11 WEB 8 When he has come, he will convict the world about sin, about righteousness, and about judgment; 9 about sin, because they don’t believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to my Father, and you won’t see me any more; 11 about judgment, because the prince of this world has been judged.
Unbelief is not a valid argument.
But, by all means, please explain why unbelief is a problem for God, and he's not vindicated by his law.
And?
Haven't you ever read where Jesus came to save sinners?
Semmelweis Reflex
Active member
I have.
I did not believe Jehovah existed, then I asked him.
What sort of reason would you require?
Semmelweis Reflex
Active member
It's been a long time since I've read any of the books in the Bible, but I reference them every day. The Skeptic 's Annotated Bible (SAB) makes the claim that there are some things that God cannot do. They give the following verses to support that statement. From my response:
Judges 1:19 - When considering this verse, it is important to consider two things. First, that Jehovah had told the people not to be afraid when doing battle in situations like this (Deuteronomy 20:1) and in this they failed at first for fear and lack of faith. Secondly, eventually they came around and were able to do it. (Judges 4:2-3; 4:13-16)
Mark 6:5 is similar to Judges 1:19 in that it wasn't entirely up to God. The people simply didn't have faith in him and divine power was not to be wasted on the unbelieving skeptics. (Matthew 10:14; Luke 16:29-31)
When?
Exactly.
Because we have free will, because God accepts it.
For what?
Why on earth would I do that?
I may be wrong, but in context it seems as if you were making the assumption that those things mentioned in the verse are products of disbelief that the believers were immune to.
Yes. I have.
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SteveB
Well-known member
You still haven't explained why it's a problem.
It's plainly stated in 2 Corinthians 1.
The promises of God are yes, and so be it.
As it's further detailed in Romans 15, and 1 Corinthians 10, the old testament was written for our comfort and encouragement, that we may learn the lessons that they struggled with.
So, what God achieved in the old testament, he has given us through Jesus Christ.
Something else that you should understand....
In Acts when Luke writes that Paul "preached from the scriptures", he's referring to the old testament.
Act 17:2 WEB Paul, as was his custom, went in to them; and for three Sabbath days reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
Act 17:11 WEB Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
Act 18:28 WEB for he powerfully refuted the Jews, publicly showing by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.
So, the entirety of the old testament is the basis for the gospel of Jesus.
You haven't read much of Abraham Lincoln.
He said something that is extremely important for all the followers of Jesus.
Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right
That said, Paul, quoting Numbers, Psalms, and Isaiah, still says it perfectly.
Num 14:8 WEB If Yahweh delights in us, then he will bring us into this land, and give it to us: a land which flows with milk and honey.
Psa 118:6 WEB Yahweh is on my side. I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?
Isa 50:8 WEB He who justifies me is near. Who will bring charges against me? Let us stand up together. Who is my adversary? Let him come near to me.
Rom 8:31 WEB What then shall we say about these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
I think the problem that people have with this is a lack of understanding of what the reason is, and what it cost God.
Rom 8:32-39 WEB 32 He who didn’t spare his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how would he not also with him freely give us all things? 33 Who could bring a charge against God’s chosen ones? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, yes rather, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Could oppression, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 Even as it is written, “For your sake we are killed all day long. We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.” 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing will be able to separate us from God’s love which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
God reserves the right to treat his people as he wants.
I have to say, I find it curious that people get all uppity when God says things they don't like.
We can either come to him, and enjoy the benefits of everything he's giving us, or suffer the consequences of their loss.
Says you.
YHVH says otherwise.
Rom 15:4 WEB For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that through perseverance and through encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
1Co 10:11 WEB Now all these things happened to them by way of example, and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come.
You can indeed exclude yourself, but to deny the truth because you don't like it doesn't matter.
Except for the ideology part, I completely agree with the ego part!
I've been saying this for several years now.
It's nice to see someone else who agrees.
Yep. No specific disagreement so far.
?
For the followers of Jesus, the bible defines a higher perspective of reality.
It doesn't deny our present, "human" perspective of reality. It simply states that human perspective is an extremely limited perspective. It's limited to this life, and this world only.
The bible lifts our eyes to receive the opportunity to look into the eyes of our Creator and see who we were created to be, and through faith in Jesus and the power of God and the bible.
So.... if you want to view this as ideology, I can accept that.
Which is exactly what the bible says.
Jesus was pretty clear about this.
Mat 16:24 WEB Then Jesus said to his disciples, “If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me.
Seems quite clear that we are are to die an ego death.
Denying ourselves is denying our ways of doing things.
Picking up our cross is a direct reference to the Roman crucifixion.
The cross was an humiliating and excruciatingly painful means of dying.
This means that by choosing to follow Jesus, we will need to pick up our instrument of self death.
It's further described in Colossians 2-3
Col 2:20 WEB If you died with Christ from the elemental spirits of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to ordinances,
Col 3:1-5 WEB 1 If then you were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, our life, is revealed, then you will also be revealed with him in glory. 5 Put to death therefore your members which are on the earth: sexual immorality, uncleanness, depraved passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
In Romans 5-8, we read that by believing in Jesus, God places us "IN Christ."
It's a pretty clear description.
The death that Jesus died is applied to us. By being "IN Christ", when Jesus died, we died with him. When Jesus rose from the dead, we were risen with Jesus.
His new life, after death, is far more profound and powerful than words beyond the ability to describe apart from knowing God.
So, yes...
The life of the Jesus followers is a life of YHVH's Power.
treeplanter
Well-known member
ANY and ALL needless harm
Oh, come on, now
Do you really believe that any human being {minus the socio/psychopath} thinks that it is morally acceptable to consciously and purposefully inflict needless harm upon others?
I, myself, am not making that call
It's most all of us that are making this call
We do
The human race
treeplanter
Well-known member
You're acutely aware that YHVH's decision to allow and/or cause wars as a consequence of a king's actions negatively impact more than just the king, himself, and this is why you trust in Jesus???
Sick!!!
Not an answer, Steve
Tell me, how have I twisted the following?
YHVH told the king that there shall be war{s} because the king's heart wasn't perfect towards God
No, what I don't like is seeing a fellow human being degrade himself by calling good, that which is evil, simply because he is too afraid to think for himself
Do you believe it is morally acceptable to consciously and purposefully inflict needless harm upon others?
YES or NO?
treeplanter
Well-known member
Deuteronomy 5:9
Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me,
YHVH/Jesus Christ
Punishing the innocent for the crimes of the 'guilty' for 2600+ years
stiggy wiggy
Well-known member
How do you get punish out of visit?
treeplanter
Well-known member
Seriously?
This is the best you can do?
To visit = to inflict {something harmful or unpleasant} on someone
You're embarrassing yourself!
Just admit it - you screwed up big time when you asserted that God doesn't punish the innocent for the crimes of the guilty