Gog-Magog: Pre or Post Millennial

Arkycharlie

Active member
The AOD thread has somewhat devolved into a debate on the timing of Ezekiel 38-39. It certainly deserves its own thread, which I am now posting. It is a very complicated prophecy, which makes it difficult to have a thorough discussion of all the elements involved in a forum such as this. That said I hope that something fruitful will emerge from the interactions!

I will restate my position on the subject to get things started. It is my assertion that Ezekiel 38-39 and Revelation 20 are describing the same event, which occurs immediately after the one thousand year Millennial Kingdom. The Day of Christ, which includes the rapture, the Great Tribulation, and the Second Coming, results in the destruction of the Man of Sin. I further assert that the Day of the LORD IS Gog-Magog and it results in the destruction of Satan. I interpret the book of Joel to be primarily a description of Gog-Magog from the Lord’s perspective of Israel at the end of the MK and Ezekiel 38-39 to be a description of the Lord’s perspective of Satan after his release from the abyss at the end of the MK. It is my assertion that any attempt to make Ezekiel 38-39 a premillennial event requires extreme manipulation of the text of Ezekiel to make it even remotely plausible and it ignores a multitude of timing indicators that plainly describe a millennial setting. I personally think that the only logical way to approach it would be to take it almost verse by verse, which is how I researched it over a period of many months a few years ago.

Anyway, it’s getting late and I will have more to say tomorrow.
 

leonard03782

Well-known member
Revelation 20:

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saint
s about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Ezekiel 38:

5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

If these two are the same event; why refer to specific nations in a specific region in one book and the whole world in another? seems inconsistent to me. I am no expert and I have not thoroughly studied this.........

Ezekiel 39:

9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.

Revelation 20:


9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. ??????????

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

?????????? Seems to me that you have major flaws in your timing.
 

Arkycharlie

Active member
I appreciate your taking the time to respond to my post but you have simply quoted Scripture and then asserted that "Seems to me that you have major flaws in your timing. Do you seriously think that these passages are unfamiliar to me? It seems to me that you have given me nothing to which I can respond. If I'm missing something here, perhaps you could enlighten me so that perhaps we could discuss whatever point it is you're trying to make to disprove my OP. I look forward to your response!
 

Arkycharlie

Active member
How can I take you seriously when you leave holes in your premise without explaining yourself?
You continue to simply quote Scripture without the slightest effort to describe how such Scripture conflicts with my assertions. Point me to the "holes" and I will be glad to address them. I will suggest that you begin by addressing my assertions regarding the book of Joel. If you are of the opinion that the first two chapters of Joel have no connection with Gog-Magog, then pray tell when does this event take place? I'm all ears!
 

Yogi

New Member
You continue to simply quote Scripture without the slightest effort to describe how such Scripture conflicts with my assertions. Point me to the "holes" and I will be glad to address them. I will suggest that you begin by addressing my assertions regarding the book of Joel. If you are of the opinion that the first two chapters of Joel have no connection with Gog-Magog, then pray tell when does this event take place? I'm all ears!
I think Leonard is pointing out the difference between one scenario that speaks of certain nations local to Israel while the other points of people from across the Earth.
 

leonard03782

Well-known member
It is my assertion that Ezekiel 38-39 and Revelation 20 are describing the same event, which occurs immediately after the one thousand year Millennial Kingdom.
Revelation 20:

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saint
s about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Ezekiel 38:

5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

If these two are the same event; why refer to specific nations in a specific region in one book and the whole world in another? seems inconsistent to me. I am no expert and I have not thoroughly studied this.........

Ezekiel 39:

9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.

Revelation 20:


9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. ??????????

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

?????????? Seems to me that you have major flaws in your timing.
What happens after God destroys His enemies in verse 9?
Satan is cast into the Lake of Fire. What happens next???
Great White Throne Judgement. What happens next?????????
Eternity!!

Now you tell me how your timeline of 7 (Ez v12)months and (Ez v9) 7 years fits into the Book of Revelation between 20:9 and 20:11.
I can tell you the long and the short of it---you can't.

Have a nice day!😏
 

Truth7t7

Active member
You continue to simply quote Scripture without the slightest effort to describe how such Scripture conflicts with my assertions. Point me to the "holes" and I will be glad to address them. I will suggest that you begin by addressing my assertions regarding the book of Joel. If you are of the opinion that the first two chapters of Joel have no connection with Gog-Magog, then pray tell when does this event take place? I'm all ears!
The Battle Of Armageddon Rev Chap 16 and Rev Chap 20 Gog/Magog are the same battle in parallel teachings.

The 7th vial is the end of this world (It Is Done)

Revelation 16:16-17KJV
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Fire comes down from heaven is the end of this world,Jesus returns in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth

The book of Revelation is seen in parallel teachings of same events.

Revelation 20:7-9KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
 

leonard03782

Well-known member
The Battle Of Armageddon Rev Chap 16 and Rev Chap 20 Gog/Magog are the same battle in parallel teachings.

The 7th vial is the end of this world (It Is Done)

Revelation 16:16-17KJV
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Fire comes down from heaven is the end of this world,Jesus returns in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth

The book of Revelation is seen in parallel teachings of same events.

Revelation 20:7-9KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
o_O
 

Truth7t7

Active member
The sixth vial currently has satan bound, when its poured out he will be loosed to deceive the kings/nations to battle

Same dragon/satan, same kings/nations, same battle seen below.

The book of Revelation is seen in parallel teachings of same events.

One Example: The 7th Vial & 7th Angel/Trump are both (The End)

Revelation 16:12-14KJV

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Revelation 20:7-8KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
 
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Truth7t7

Active member
I will restate my position on the subject to get things started. It is my assertion that Ezekiel 38-39 and Revelation 20 are describing the same event, which occurs immediately after the one thousand year Millennial Kingdom. The Day of Christ, which includes the rapture, the Great Tribulation, and the Second Coming, results in the destruction of the Man of Sin. I further assert that the Day of the LORD IS Gog-Magog and it results in the destruction of Satan. I interpret the book of Joel to be primarily a description of Gog-Magog from the Lord’s perspective of Israel at the end of the MK and Ezekiel 38-39 to be a description of the Lord’s perspective of Satan after his release from the abyss at the end of the MK. It is my assertion that any attempt to make Ezekiel 38-39 a premillennial event requires extreme manipulation of the text of Ezekiel to make it even remotely plausible and it ignores a multitude of timing indicators that plainly describe a millennial setting. I personally think that the only logical way to approach it would be to take it almost verse by verse, which is how I researched it over a period of many months a few years ago.

Anyway, it’s getting late and I will have more to say tomorrow.
The battle seen in Ezekiel Chapter 39 was fought long ago in (History), against those that inhabited Israel/Jerusalem during the captivity, when the Israelites returned from their 70 Year Captivity in Babylon to Jerusalem, plain, simple, easy to understand.

1.) The (Wooden) tools of warfare below are clearly explained as (Historical) weapons, Shields, Bucklers, Bows, Arrows, Handstaves, Spears

Ezekiel 39:9KJV

9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

2.) Gods word (Clearly) explains below, this was a battle when the Israelites returned to Jerusalem after the 70 year Babylonian Captivity, He Left None There In Babylon, (Simple)

Ezekiel 39:22-29KJV

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward.
23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
25 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28 Then shall they know that I am the Lord their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord God.
 
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Arkycharlie

Active member
The battle seen in Ezekiel Chapter 39 was fought long ago in (History), against those that inhabited Israel/Jerusalem during the captivity, when the Israelites returned from their 70 Year Captivity in Babylon to Jerusalem, plain, simple, easy to understand.

1.) The (Wooden) tools of warfare below are clearly explained as (Historical) weapons, Shields, Bucklers, Bows, Arrows, Handstaves, Spears

Ezekiel 39:9KJV

9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

2.) Gods word (Clearly) explains below, this was a battle when the Israelites returned to Jerusalem after the 70 year Babylonian Captivity, He Left None There In Babylon, (Simple)

Ezekiel 39:22-29KJV

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward.
23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
25 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28 Then shall they know that I am the Lord their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord God.
blah, blah, blah. This stuff gets tiring because it is simply the rants of one who is so woefully inadequate to connect the dots of Bible prophecy yet presents himself as an "expert".
 

Truth7t7

Active member
blah, blah, blah. This stuff gets tiring because it is simply the rants of one who is so woefully inadequate to connect the dots of Bible prophecy yet presents himself as an "expert".
Pretty hard to argue against Gods simple words of truth, Ezekiel Chapter 39 was a historical war fought long ago, just as Gods words clearly teach, so easy to understand, a 3rd grader could be in the study :)
 

leonard03782

Well-known member
The sixth vial currently has satan bound, when its poured out he will be loosed to deceive the kings/nations to battle

Same dragon/satan, same kings/nations, same battle seen below.

The book of Revelation is seen in parallel teachings of same events.

One Example: The 7th Vial & 7th Angel/Trump are both (The End)

Revelation 16:12-14KJV

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Revelation 20:7-8KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
:ROFLMAO:
 

Timtofly

Member
The sixth vial currently has satan bound, when its poured out he will be loosed to deceive the kings/nations to battle

Same dragon/satan, same kings/nations, same battle seen below.

The book of Revelation is seen in parallel teachings of same events.

One Example: The 7th Vial & 7th Angel/Trump are both (The End)

Revelation 16:12-14KJV

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Revelation 20:7-8KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Gog and Magog is not Armageddon. It is not even Ezekiel's Gog and Magog. Ezekiel's Turkey, Syria (Russia backed), Islamic war machine in Iraq all played out over the last 20 years. This generation will not be surprised even if another major war happens in this area. Anything has been building and letting off steam for several decades.

You have not even defined the 1000 years between Armageddon and the last Gog and Magog rebellion. Was there a battle of Armageddon 1000 years ago? Did we miss the Second Coming 1000 years ago? If you claim Satan was loosed in the 6th vial, which actually does not say that at all; Satan, the FP, and the image already had full control for 42 months. They were not bound in the least.

The Abomination of Desolation starts the 42 months of Satan, the FP, and the image. At the end is the battle of Armageddon. 1000 years later, Christ is still on the earth, then Satan is loosed to gather that Gog and Magog rebellion.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
Gog and Magog is not Armageddon. It is not even Ezekiel's Gog and Magog. Ezekiel's Turkey, Syria (Russia backed), Islamic war machine in Iraq all played out over the last 20 years. This generation will not be surprised even if another major war happens in this area. Anything has been building and letting off steam for several decades.

You have not even defined the 1000 years between Armageddon and the last Gog and Magog rebellion. Was there a battle of Armageddon 1000 years ago? Did we miss the Second Coming 1000 years ago? If you claim Satan was loosed in the 6th vial, which actually does not say that at all; Satan, the FP, and the image already had full control for 42 months. They were not bound in the least.

The Abomination of Desolation starts the 42 months of Satan, the FP, and the image. At the end is the battle of Armageddon. 1000 years later, Christ is still on the earth, then Satan is loosed to gather that Gog and Magog rebellion.
The Fact Is, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving The Heavens And Earth By Fire.

Many desire to see Jesus Christ return, and start a Millennial Kingdom on this earth, many dont want to acknowledge the fire at the Lords Appearance, Revealing, because their Millennial Kingdom on this Earth is (Gone)

The Lord Jesus Christ Appears, Reveals, In (FIRE)

There wont be a 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth, Jesus Christ will return in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Malachi 3:2KJV

2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,
and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

"Destroyed Them All" At His Revealing (Fact)

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

At His Presence, The World Is Burned, And "All" That Dwell Therein (Fact)

Nahum 1:5KJV

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Bodies Consumed By The Lords Fire In Final Judgement

Zechariah 14:12KJV

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

The Heavens And Earth Are (Dissolved)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
What a waste of time this is........
The truth of Gods words, a waste of time?

2 Timothy 3:16-17KJV
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
 

Yogi

New Member
There wont be a 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth, Jesus Christ will return in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire.
Hi T7t7

When does this happen?...

Zech. 14:16- And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
 
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