Gog-Magog: Pre or Post Millennial

Truth7t7

Member
They lived and reigned after a first resurrection, that is a physical, incorruptible, and permanent body was given to these souls.
There Will Be One Future Resurrection Of "All" On The Last Day

(First Resurrection) Eternal Life

(Second Resurrection) Eternal Damnation

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth
;they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 

Timtofly

Member
There Will Be One Future Resurrection Of "All" On The Last Day

(First Resurrection) Eternal Life

(Second Resurrection) Eternal Damnation

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth
;they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
And you just denied the Resurrection of Revelation 20:4

Why deny there is a physical resurrection for those beheaded during Satan's 42 months who will live on earth for 1000 years, like God says in Revelation 20?

You deny that the Cross was the Last Day Resurrection. Jesus gave those words prior to dying on the Cross and the Last Day Resurrection for those in Abraham's bosom. The Cross was their last day in death.

They and the whole NT church are now in Paradise in physical incorruptible bodies.

2 Corinthians 5:1-9

1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight.)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

We are either in sheol or in our permanent incorruptible body in Paradise. There is no middle ground resting place of the soul.

If you claim they are dead souls, you deny the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ. We are alive in Christ and after this temporal bodies dies, we are no longer dead, but alive in Christ just like Christ is alive in Paradise.

This life is the only death those in Christ experience. This physical body is a dead body. It is given to the soul at birth with Adam's dead, sinful flesh and blood.
 

Truth7t7

Member
And you just denied the Resurrection of Revelation 20:4

Why deny there is a physical resurrection for those beheaded during Satan's 42 months who will live on earth for 1000 years, like God says in Revelation 20?

You deny that the Cross was the Last Day Resurrection. Jesus gave those words prior to dying on the Cross and the Last Day Resurrection for those in Abraham's bosom. The Cross was their last day in death.

They and the whole NT church are now in Paradise in physical incorruptible bodies.

2 Corinthians 5:1-9

1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight.)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

We are either in sheol or in our permanent incorruptible body in Paradise. There is no middle ground resting place of the soul.

If you claim they are dead souls, you deny the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ. We are alive in Christ and after this temporal bodies dies, we are no longer dead, but alive in Christ just like Christ is alive in Paradise.

This life is the only death those in Christ experience. This physical body is a dead body. It is given to the soul at birth with Adam's dead, sinful flesh and blood.
We Will "Strongly Disagree" :)

1.) The Cross wasnt (The Last Day) resurrection, it will be a future event at the last trump, second coming, end of this world in final judgement.

2.) The beheaded tribulation saints will be resurrected at the future resurrection of "All" at the second coming and final judgement on the last day John 12:48, immediately after the tribulation, when the books are opened Dan 12:1-2, Rev 20:11-15

3.) The old testament saints and church are not in physical incorruptible bodies as you claim, they are waiting upon the last trump 1 Cor 15:52-54, at the last day resurrection of all, at the time of Final judgement, when the book of life is opened Daniel 12:1-2, John 5:28-29 same event.

Daniel 12:1-2KJV

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth
;
they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Revelation 20:11-15KJV

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 
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JDS

Active member
The AOD thread has somewhat devolved into a debate on the timing of Ezekiel 38-39. It certainly deserves its own thread, which I am now posting. It is a very complicated prophecy, which makes it difficult to have a thorough discussion of all the elements involved in a forum such as this. That said I hope that something fruitful will emerge from the interactions!

I will restate my position on the subject to get things started. It is my assertion that Ezekiel 38-39 and Revelation 20 are describing the same event, which occurs immediately after the one thousand year Millennial Kingdom. The Day of Christ, which includes the rapture, the Great Tribulation, and the Second Coming, results in the destruction of the Man of Sin. I further assert that the Day of the LORD IS Gog-Magog and it results in the destruction of Satan. I interpret the book of Joel to be primarily a description of Gog-Magog from the Lord’s perspective of Israel at the end of the MK and Ezekiel 38-39 to be a description of the Lord’s perspective of Satan after his release from the abyss at the end of the MK. It is my assertion that any attempt to make Ezekiel 38-39 a premillennial event requires extreme manipulation of the text of Ezekiel to make it even remotely plausible and it ignores a multitude of timing indicators that plainly describe a millennial setting. I personally think that the only logical way to approach it would be to take it almost verse by verse, which is how I researched it over a period of many months a few years ago.

Anyway, it’s getting late and I will have more to say tomorrow.
Arkycharlie, I have just scanned through some of the comments and I can appreciate your desire to put things together. Ezekiel is not an easy prophet to understand but most of his prophecies seem to concern the nations that originated from the firstborn son of Noah, Japheth. I am not an expert on prophecy but I am interested in end time events. All but one of the sons of Japheth is mentioned in this prophecy if I remember my study clearly. This is one of the things that has led me to think we could be getting a good deal of information of the time after the millennium when Satan is loosed for a little season. Most of these nations have not had a prominent role in bible prophecy til this time.

Genesis 10:2

The sons of Japheth;
Gomer, and Eze 38:6
Magog, and (Gog is his land) - Eze 38:2 - 39;6
Madai, and
Javan, and Isaiah 66:19- Ezekiel 27:13 - Ezekiel 27:19
Tubal, and Ezekiel 27:13 - Ezekiel 32:26 - Ezekiel 38:2-3 - Ezekiel 39:1
Meshech, and - Ezekiel 27:13 - 32:26 - 38-2-3 - 39:1
Tiras.

As you can see these peoples show up in Ezekiel but nowhere else prophetically. It might mean something and it might not. I know Daniel prophesied from his time all during the times of the gentiles and he was contemporary with Ezekiel.

The one problem with some of these nations going into the millennial kingdom is the judgement of the nations in Matt 25 just after the great tribulation. The basis for them entering in is how they treated the Jews during that time.

Well, I am rambling somewhat. Do you have any thoughts on anything I have said?
 

Arkycharlie

Member
Arkycharlie, I have just scanned through some of the comments and I can appreciate your desire to put things together. Ezekiel is not an easy prophet to understand but most of his prophecies seem to concern the nations that originated from the firstborn son of Noah, Japheth. I am not an expert on prophecy but I am interested in end time events. All but one of the sons of Japheth is mentioned in this prophecy if I remember my study clearly. This is one of the things that has led me to think we could be getting a good deal of information of the time after the millennium when Satan is loosed for a little season. Most of these nations have not had a prominent role in bible prophecy til this time.

Genesis 10:2

The sons of Japheth;
Gomer, and Eze 38:6
Magog, and (Gog is his land) - Eze 38:2 - 39;6
Madai, and
Javan, and Isaiah 66:19- Ezekiel 27:13 - Ezekiel 27:19
Tubal, and Ezekiel 27:13 - Ezekiel 32:26 - Ezekiel 38:2-3 - Ezekiel 39:1
Meshech, and - Ezekiel 27:13 - 32:26 - 38-2-3 - 39:1
Tiras.

As you can see these peoples show up in Ezekiel but nowhere else prophetically. It might mean something and it might not. I know Daniel prophesied from his time all during the times of the gentiles and he was contemporary with Ezekiel.

The one problem with some of these nations going into the millennial kingdom is the judgement of the nations in Matt 25 just after the great tribulation. The basis for them entering in is how they treated the Jews during that time.

Well, I am rambling somewhat. Do you have any thoughts on anything I have said?
JDS, you've made some interesting observations. It's late and I want to give you a detailed response so it will have to wait until tomorrow. I definitely have some comments to offer. Thanks!
 

Truth7t7

Member
Arkycharlie, I have just scanned through some of the comments and I can appreciate your desire to put things together. Ezekiel is not an easy prophet to understand but most of his prophecies seem to concern the nations that originated from the firstborn son of Noah, Japheth. I am not an expert on prophecy but I am interested in end time events. All but one of the sons of Japheth is mentioned in this prophecy if I remember my study clearly. This is one of the things that has led me to think we could be getting a good deal of information of the time after the millennium when Satan is loosed for a little season. Most of these nations have not had a prominent role in bible prophecy til this time.

Genesis 10:2

The sons of Japheth;
Gomer, and Eze 38:6
Magog, and (Gog is his land) - Eze 38:2 - 39;6
Madai, and
Javan, and Isaiah 66:19- Ezekiel 27:13 - Ezekiel 27:19
Tubal, and Ezekiel 27:13 - Ezekiel 32:26 - Ezekiel 38:2-3 - Ezekiel 39:1
Meshech, and - Ezekiel 27:13 - 32:26 - 38-2-3 - 39:1
Tiras.

As you can see these peoples show up in Ezekiel but nowhere else prophetically. It might mean something and it might not. I know Daniel prophesied from his time all during the times of the gentiles and he was contemporary with Ezekiel.

The one problem with some of these nations going into the millennial kingdom is the judgement of the nations in Matt 25 just after the great tribulation. The basis for them entering in is how they treated the Jews during that time.

Well, I am rambling somewhat. Do you have any thoughts on anything I have said?
Will You Pretend As If The Scripture Below is Non-Existent? :)

The Fact Is, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving The Heavens And Earth By Fire.

Many desire to see Jesus Christ return, and start a Millennial Kingdom on this earth, many dont want to acknowledge the fire at the Lords Appearance, Revealing, because their Millennial Kingdom on this Earth is (Gone)

The Lord Jesus Christ Appears, Reveals, In (FIRE)

There wont be a 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth, Jesus Christ will return in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Malachi 3:2KJV

2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,
and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

"Destroyed Them All" At His Revealing (Fact)

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

At His Presence, The World Is Burned, And "All" That Dwell Therein (Fact)

Nahum 1:5KJV

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Bodies Consumed By The Lords Fire In Final Judgement

Zechariah 14:12KJV

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

The Heavens And Earth Are (Dissolved)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
 
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Arkycharlie

Member
JDS, you've made some interesting observations. It's late and I want to give you a detailed response so it will have to wait until tomorrow. I definitely have some comments to offer. Thanks!
OK, I’m back. You wrote: “All but one of the sons of Japheth is mentioned in this prophecy if I remember my study clearly.”

Actually, three of the sons of Japeth are not mentioned in Ezekiel 38-39. They are the three that I’ve highlighted: The sons of Japheth were Gomer and Magog and Madai and Javan and Tubal and Meshech and Tiras” (Genesis 10:2)

I have maintained for many years that an accurate understanding of eschatology starts with accurate presuppositions. If I presume that Ezekiel’s Gog-Magog prophecy is a premillennial event, then I will tend to gloss over passages that would appear to conflict with that presupposition. And this is rampant among premillennialists these days. There’s also an issue with translators of the OT in our modern English Bibles that can lead students of Scripture astray and that is the issue of whether to translate or transliterate words in the Hebrew text. And the opening verses of Ezekiel 38 are a prime example, as I will illustrate.

Ezekiel 38:
1 The word of the LORD came to me saying: 2 “Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshek and Tubal and prophesy against him.​

Look at the Hebrew text of these verses:

Ezk38_1.jpg
Notice first that the sign of the definite article is prefixed to Magog, not land. Magog is a compound word composed of Gog with the letter Mem prefixed. “Mem” is one of four inseparable prepositions and means “from”. So technically, the phrase reads “Gog, land of the “from Gog”.

Likewise, Meshech and Tubal can be translated and their meanings reinforce a postmillennial fulfillment. Meshek means “draw” as in draw a bow or to be drawn. Tubal can be transliterated as a proper name or translated meaning “decadence” but by far the most usage is habitation or simply the earth. Putting it all together, I suggest that an accurate reading of the text is “Gog, land of the from Gog, chief prince of those drawn from the earth. Gog, of course, is a pseudonym for Satan. This correlates with Revelation 20:

7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog,​

Notice that in the Greek text, it reads “the Gog” and “the Magog”.

Re20_8.png

I will await your reaction to this and see if you have any interest in proceeding further with the study.
 

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JDS

Active member
OK, I’m back.
As I said I am interested in the prophetic word of God but I am not interested in a Hebrew or Greek study more than checking basis words and those things I find helpful. I have an English Bible and the indwelling Holy Spirt as my teacher. He can teach in English with no trouble. There is a method he gives us for that and I find it works great if you have a God approved translation. The words are of extreme importance and you can pick your topic to discuss and you will find that people who take heretical views like, what’s his name, truth7t7, do not believe the words.

I tend to agree with you that a portion of the prophecy of Ezekiel must be dealing post mil.
 

JDS

Active member
Will You Pretend As If The Scripture Below is Non-Existent?
You don’t think we who disagree with you are too dumb to pick out a word like “fire” and do a word search and then choose from the results those verses that support a doctrine to develop that we like from that method of handling the word of God, do you?

The fact is there are very few people dumb enough to do that. It seems like you have found your niche.
 

Truth7t7

Member
You don’t think we who disagree with you are too dumb to pick out a word like “fire” and do a word search and then choose from the results those verses that support a doctrine to develop that we like from that method of handling the word of God, do you?

The fact is there are very few people dumb enough to do that. It seems like you have found your niche.
A Developed Doctrine, Big Smiles! :)

You Deny The Lord's Return In Fire And Final Judgement, Before Your Eyes

The Fact Is, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving The Heavens And Earth By Fire.

Many desire to see Jesus Christ return, and start a Millennial Kingdom on this earth, many dont want to acknowledge the fire at the Lords Appearance, Revealing, because their Millennial Kingdom on this Earth is (Gone)

The Lord Jesus Christ Appears, Reveals, In (FIRE)

There wont be a 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth, Jesus Christ will return in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Malachi 3:2KJV

2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,
and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

"Destroyed Them All" At His Revealing (Fact)

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

At His Presence, The World Is Burned, And "All" That Dwell Therein (Fact)

Nahum 1:5KJV

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Bodies Consumed By The Lords Fire In Final Judgement

Zechariah 14:12KJV

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

The Heavens And Earth Are (Dissolved)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
 
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