H mom claim The only way to remove a fetus at 17 weeks is called "abortion."

Ignatius

Active member
All of which, including natural miscarriage, are called abortion. If a moonshot is halted midway through countdown, it is aborted. The reason or mechanism is immaterial. You have plunged into the detail with no knowledge of the general principles. As always.
However no life is terminated in an abortion moosnshot countdown.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
Interesting your side assigns the same meaning to the unborn as to a corpse. Human but not a person.
It is scheduled to be a corpse.

The old H.D. Atheist from Vienna has not returned. He pulled the sentient/non-sentient argument out of his anatomy to argue abortionism.
The medical people all know under the deeper stages of anesthesia, we are non-sentient. No longer a person on the OR table. Just a "corpse"
 

Temujin

Well-known member
It is scheduled to be a corpse.

The old H.D. Atheist from Vienna has not returned. He pulled the sentient/non-sentient argument out of his anatomy to argue abortionism.
The medical people all know under the deeper stages of anesthesia, we are non-sentient. No longer a person on the OR table. Just a "corpse"
Anyone with any medical knowledge whatever, which excludes you, obviously, knows that unconscious does not equal non-sentient.
 

Harry Leggs

Well-known member
Anyone with any medical knowledge whatever, which excludes you, obviously, knows that unconscious does not equal non-sentient.
There is no science basis for the body/person dichotomy... sub-person designation for the unborn. Abortion is immoral esp when practiced for birth control.
 

Harry Leggs

Well-known member
It is scheduled to be a corpse.

The old H.D. Atheist from Vienna has not returned. He pulled the sentient/non-sentient argument out of his anatomy to argue abortionism.
The medical people all know under the deeper stages of anesthesia, we are non-sentient. No longer a person on the OR table. Just a "corpse"

After Birth Abortion Why Should A Baby Live?

 
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Temujin

Well-known member
There is no science basis for the body/person dichotomy... sub-person designation for the unborn. Abortion is immoral esp when practiced for birth control.
Both the pill and the coil are abortificants, used by millions of women worthwhile. You don't get to call all these women immoral.
 

Harry Leggs

Well-known member
Both the pill and the coil are abortificants, used by millions of women worthwhile. You don't get to call all these women immoral.

Millennials have also grown up amid the grim images of abortion and its aftermath. For many, the willful destruction of life in the womb seems less an act of "reproductive freedom" than an act of violence against an innocent victim. All of them know someone who has had a legal abortion; they need only look in a mirror to see someone else who could have been lawfully aborted.

It has been a long time since Roe v. Wade legalized abortion in every state, and, in the companion case of Doe v. Bolton , effectively proclaimed a right to destroy an unborn baby at any stage of pregnancy. But making abortion lawful didn't make it right. Even after all these years, Americans tend to regard most abortions as ignoble.** According to Gallup, only 38 percent of US adults generally see abortion as morally acceptable. Other surveys concur. The Pew Research Center found in 2013 that 49 percent of Americans believe that having an abortion is morally wrong, far outnumbering those who regard abortion as morally acceptable (15 percent) or not a moral issue (23 percent).


**
  • Not noble in quality, character, or purpose; base or dishonorable. synonym: base.
  • adj.
    Not of high social status; common.

  • To make ignoble or vile; degrade; disgrace; bring into disrepute.
 

Harry Leggs

Well-known member
All of which, including natural miscarriage, are called abortion. If a moonshot is halted midway through countdown, it is aborted. The reason or mechanism is immaterial. You have plunged into the detail with no knowledge of the general principles. As always.
The Religious Coalition for Abortion Rights argues that the Bible does not forbid abortion. It is absolutely true that there are no explicit verses in the Bible opposing abortion. The reason is because during the biblical era, Jews believed that abortion was unthinkable. They regarded abortion as a form of murder and laws against murder were considered to be sufficient to cover abortion.
In the early church, Christians felt that they needed to take a stand because they were in an entirely different cultural situation. In the Greco-Roman world, both abortion and infanticide were widely practiced. The church unanimously and strongly opposed abortion from its earliest days:
• The Didache (likely written in the first century) says, “Do not murder a child by abortion nor kill it at birth.”
• The second century Epistle of Barnabas says, “You shall not slay a child by abortion.”
• Athenagoras, a second century Greek apologist, wrote, “We say that women who use drugs to bring on abortion commit murder… [for we] regard the very fetus in the womb as a created being, and therefore an object of God’s care.”
• In the early third century the African church father Tertullian wrote, “It does not matter whether you take away a life that is born, or destroy one that is coming to birth. In both instances, the destruction is murder.”
• In the fourth century, Basil of Caesarea, wrote, “A woman who deliberately destroys a fetus is answerable for murder.”
• In the same century, John Chrysostom, the most esteemed church father in Eastern Orthodoxy said, “Why do you abuse the gift of God… and make the chamber of procreation a chamber for murder?”
• Jerome called abortion, “The murder of an unborn child.”

“Because prostitution was at the center of an ancient sexual culture . . . the progressive realization of its injustice is a privileged index of Christianization.”68 Let that historical fact sink in: The most reliable index of how deeply Christianity had permeated a society was whether it outlawed sexual slavery.

Pearcey, Nancy. Love Thy Body (p. 72). Baker Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
 
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Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
The Religious Coalition for Abortion Rights argues that the Bible does not forbid abortion. It is absolutely true that there are no explicit verses in the Bible opposing abortion. The reason is because during the biblical era, Jews believed that abortion was unthinkable. They regarded abortion as a form of murder and laws against murder were considered to be sufficient to cover abortion.
Do you have any support for this claim? I would very much like to see it.
 

Temujin

Well-known member

Millennials have also grown up amid the grim images of abortion and its aftermath. For many, the willful destruction of life in the womb seems less an act of "reproductive freedom" than an act of violence against an innocent victim. All of them know someone who has had a legal abortion; they need only look in a mirror to see someone else who could have been lawfully aborted.

It has been a long time since Roe v. Wade legalized abortion in every state, and, in the companion case of Doe v. Bolton , effectively proclaimed a right to destroy an unborn baby at any stage of pregnancy. But making abortion lawful didn't make it right. Even after all these years, Americans tend to regard most abortions as ignoble.** According to Gallup, only 38 percent of US adults generally see abortion as morally acceptable. Other surveys concur. The Pew Research Center found in 2013 that 49 percent of Americans believe that having an abortion is morally wrong, far outnumbering those who regard abortion as morally acceptable (15 percent) or not a moral issue (23 percent).


**
  • Not noble in quality, character, or purpose; base or dishonorable. synonym: base.
  • adj.
    Not of high social status; common.

  • To make ignoble or vile; degrade; disgrace; bring into disrepute.
What is incompatible with someone choosing not to have an abortion because they feel it is morally wrong, but being in favour of other women being able to make that choice for themselves? That is what being pro-choice means. Those who would ban abortion wish to deprive women of the chance to make a choice, including the choice that you think is the morally correct one. Your argument is essentially saying that women are incapable of making that choice and it should be made for them by us men.

I think that it is a good thing that the majority of young adults in the US are pro-choice and yet would not have an abortion themselves. Of course, answering a poll question is not the same as actually being pregnant, but I leave that to one side. What is true is that marriage is less common, cohabiting couples with children are more common. Children conceived and born out of wedlock are no longer stigmatised. They are commonplace. That has removed one of the significant drivers of abortion.

There will always be women who want abortions for a variety of reasons, some of them very pressing. It is a good thing to allow a stigma-free safety net for those women, to choose freely and to receive the care they need whatever their choice. The pro-choice position is the moral position. Thank you for providing an article that reinforces that.
 

Harry Leggs

Well-known member

Today, as in ancient times, abortion and infanticide are practiced primarily against baby girls. Sex-selection abortion has created a surplus of men in several nations, from China to India. Girls are also more likely to die from malnutrition and neglect. Adult women are subject to violence and death at the hands of husbands and other family members. The United Nations estimates that 200 million women are demographically missing. Some have labeled it “gendercide.”63 A documentary on the issue says, “The three deadliest words in the world are, ‘It’s a girl.’”64 The world desperately needs the biblical view of a woman’s worth.

Pearcey, Nancy. Love Thy Body (pp. 70-71). Baker Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
 

Harry Leggs

Well-known member
The pro-choice position is the moral position. Thank you for providing an article that reinforces that.
Pro-abortion is immoral and in this regard Christianity is, and always has been, countercultural. Same with playing house absent marriage. Immoral and overall damaging to women. So if that is the norm, then Christianity is nonconformist. Same with same-sex marriage. All incompatible with Christianity and objectively wrong, subjects the practitioner to judgement from God.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
What is incompatible with someone choosing not to have an abortion because they feel it is morally wrong, but being in favour of other women being able to make that choice for themselves? That is what being pro-choice means. Those who would ban abortion wish to deprive women of the chance to make a choice, including the choice that you think is the morally correct one. Your argument is essentially saying that women are incapable of making that choice and it should be made for them by us men.

I think that it is a good thing that the majority of young adults in the US are pro-choice and yet would not have an abortion themselves. Of course, answering a poll question is not the same as actually being pregnant, but I leave that to one side. What is true is that marriage is less common, cohabiting couples with children are more common. Children conceived and born out of wedlock are no longer stigmatised. They are commonplace. That has removed one of the significant drivers of abortion.

There will always be women who want abortions for a variety of reasons, some of them very pressing. It is a good thing to allow a stigma-free safety net for those women, to choose freely and to receive the care they need whatever their choice. The pro-choice position is the moral position. Thank you for providing an article that reinforces that.
Killing and lying are both defended by the heathen. A sonogram is used to prove it is a HUMAN baby, A heart monitor is used to determine the baby has been killed before chopping the baby into parts for extraction.
You can't fool God and you are trying so hard to fool yourself.

You sources lie thru their teeth.

My Board Certified OB Doc sources are well aware of your dishonest talking points. Nobody in American health care has Wails Jailers for a "source"

Fail Satan. .
Your atheist ring leaders were not stigmatized when they killed 200 million innocent citizens.
 
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