Hard Data Shows the Covid Vaccines Don’t Work

[Thistle]

Taking time to do something would mean God exists in time (and space), which is a blatant contradiction of the Christian doctrine of creation.

How God relates to time has a little to nothing to do with the doctrine of creation. The question that I think you're driving at is whether or not the philosophical idea of Augustinian timelessness is the correct view of God's relationship to time, or alternatively is God temporally related to time. Another way of putting this question is does God experience the passing of moments. Or does God remember the past, experience the moment, and know the future. I'm probably in the minority who views Gods relationship to time as temporal. For some people this is a nonstarter, because time is near as we can tell today, started at the big bang. That's not a problem for me, because all we have to acknowledge is the attribute of God that he experiences the passing of moments and once we acknowledge that we establish that there is at least two timelines a temporal timeline that applies to the universe and an attribute of God that is intrinsic to who God is whereby he experiences the passing of moments which we could call "God time." So before the existence of the universe and temporal time there was always a God time and will ever be a God time because God is a necessary Being and in any and all circumstances He must exist.

So contrary to your assertion above, God does not exist "in time," rather God-time is an inherent attribute of God himself, and without all of God's attributes God is incomplete, but God cannot be incomplete, therefore there is no contradiction. You see God cannot be less than God even a little bit even for an instant, that's part of what being a necessary Being means. Now if I happen to be wrong and Saint Augustine happens to be right, there still no problem and no conflict with the doctrine of creation.

I could go into my reasons for believing that Saint Augustine is incorrect but it's really beyond the scope of this conversation.

You can choose to believe - despite simple logic to the contrary - that God can do the logically contradictory.

You've not given an example of any logical contradiction.

aka. faith

Logical contradictions have nothing to do with faith. The Eastern Orthodox recognize that there are paradoxes the solution to which not everyone agrees about. Rather than enforcing a particular viewpoint, they call these paradoxes mysteries. That is 1,000,000 miles from being a logical contradiction.

Still, this kind of logic-defying faith was (and still is) anathema to Christian philosophers / theologians.

You haven't given an example of contradiction yet. So your pronoun "this" has no object.

Logic, you see, is supposed to be an aspect of the Christian God; just like Love.

Astonishing you have bladdered along until you managed to say something that was true. I guess it just goes to show that even stopped watch is right twice a day.

For God to exhibit logically incompatible traits is to paint him as non-existent according to Christian theology.

Nope, you have no clue what you just said, because what you said here proves that you've missed the entire point. If reason is an attribute of God, and it is, then God cannot be less than completely reasonable even for a moment, because God is a necessary Being, and he cannot fail to be completely God in any respect even for an instant.

 

[Authentic Nouveau]

Can’t Make This Up: Vaccine Maker Moderna Pulls Out of J.P. Morgan Healthcare Conference Due to COVID-19 Fears​

They are willing to go "virtual"

Just a reminder, it is important for Big Corporations to flirt and impress the Investment Bankers and the Securities analysts.

 

[Carol]

How God relates to time has a little to nothing to do with the doctrine of creation. The question that I think you're driving at is whether or not the philosophical idea of Augustinian timelessness is the correct view of God's relationship to time, or alternatively is God temporally related to time. Another way of putting this question is does God experience the passing of moments. Or does God remember the past, experience the moment, and know the future. I'm probably in the minority who views Gods relationship to time as temporal. For some people this is a nonstarter, because time is near as we can tell today, started at the big bang. That's not a problem for me, because all we have to acknowledge is the attribute of God that he experiences the passing of moments and once we acknowledge that we establish that there is at least two timelines a temporal timeline that applies to the universe and an attribute of God that is intrinsic to who God is whereby he experiences the passing of moments which we could call "God time." So before the existence of the universe and temporal time there was always a God time and will ever be a God time because God is a necessary Being and in any and all circumstances He must exist.

So contrary to your assertion above, God does not exist "in time," rather God-time is an inherent attribute of God himself, and without all of God's attributes God is incomplete, but God cannot be incomplete, therefore there is no contradiction. You see God cannot be less than God even a little bit even for an instant, that's part of what being a necessary Being means. Now if I happen to be wrong and Saint Augustine happens to be right, there still no problem and no conflict with the doctrine of creation.

I could go into my reasons for believing that Saint Augustine is incorrect but it's really beyond the scope of this conversation.

You've not given an example of any logical contradiction.

Logical contradictions have nothing to do with faith. The Eastern Orthodox recognize that there are paradoxes the solution to which not everyone agrees about. Rather than enforcing a particular viewpoint, they call these paradoxes mysteries. That is 1,000,000 miles from being a logical contradiction.

You haven't given an example of contradiction yet. So your pronoun "this" has no object.

Astonishing you have bladdered along until you managed to say something that was true. I guess it just goes to show that even stopped watch is right twice a day.

Nope, you have no clue what you just said, because what you said here proves that you've missed the entire point. If reason is an attribute of God, and it is, then God cannot be less than completely reasonable even for a moment, because God is a necessary Being, and he cannot fail to be completely God in any respect even for an instant.

This discussion reminds me of the analogy of the two- dimensional stick men trying to discuss a three- dimensional reality.

 

[Thistle]

This discussion reminds me of the analogy of the two- dimensional stick men trying to discuss a three- dimensional reality.

"Flatland" was a book that Albert Einstein mentioned I believe when he was discussing certain aspects of this theory of relativity. We're all just like fleas arguing about the existence of dog.

 

[Carol]

"Flatland" was a book that Albert Einstein mentioned I believe when he was discussing certain aspects of this theory of relativity.

Hadn't heard of that, just the analogy.

We're all just like fleas arguing about the existence of dog.

Or fetuses?
All creation groans like a woman in labor....I forget which chapter of Romans....

 

[Thistle]

Hadn't heard of that, just the analogy.



Or fetuses?
All creation groans like a woman in labor....I forget which chapter of Romans....

Romans 8. It's an important passage. We learn from it that it's not just our physical bodies and it will be transformed and glorified but all of creation.

 

[Bonnie]

Taking time to do something would mean God exists in time (and space), which is a blatant contradiction of the Christian doctrine of creation.

This is rather off topic for this thread but God invented time and space. So, I see no contradiction.

You can choose to believe - despite simple logic to the contrary - that God can do the logically contradictory.

God is infinite, eternal, omnipotent, omniscient. He isn't held captive by our finite ability to understand Him and His nature fully, this side of heaven.

aka. faith

Still, this kind of logic-defying faith was (and still is) anathema to Christian philosophers / theologians. Logic, you see, is supposed to be an aspect of the Christian God; just like Love. For God to exhibit logically incompatible traits is to paint him as non-existent according to Christian theology.

It is illogical to expect God to be held captive to our finite ability to understand Him and His nature fully. He is infinite; we are finite. God created the universe and the natural laws that govern it, so, He is not held captive by His own creation, since He created the universe, and He exists outside of time and space. It would be like a painter being held captive by something he painted on canvas.

I just know that God loves me--and you--so much, that He sent His one and only Son to suffer and die in our place, for our sins. "He who knew no sin became sin for us" as Paul wrote, so that those who believe on His Name, He gives the right to become children of God, as John 1 states.

That is all I will say about this on here, as it is really off topic for this thread. We will just need to agree to disagree. Peace.

 

[Whateverman]

It is illogical to expect God to be held captive to our finite ability to understand Him and His nature fully.

If true, it is thus also illogical to expect that things like the English language could accurately describe Him, His thoughts or His desires.

That is all I will say about this on here, as it is really off topic for this thread. We will just need to agree to disagree. Peace.

Yes, it is off-topic, but remember to whom I originally responded to on this tangent. They brought it up, not me. You can have the last word if you wish, Bonnie

 

[Authentic Nouveau]

What we know

We know many who took clot shot get sick It doesn't work.

We know many infected last year were asymptomatic. None got shot

We have no proof the ones who didn't get sick were exposed to infection.

 

[Bonnie]

If true, it is thus also illogical to expect that things like the English language could accurately describe Him, His thoughts or His desires.


Yes, it is off-topic, but remember to whom I originally responded to on this tangent. They brought it up, not me. You can have the last word if you wish, Bonnie

I know you didn't bring this up originally, I was just saying I didn't want to go too off tangent for this board. And this will be my last word.

 

[Bonnie]

What we know

We know many who took clot shot get sick It doesn't work.

But not nearly as many as who got sick who did not get the vaccine.

We know many infected last year were asymptomatic. None got shot

Some were, but there is no way to predict who will get a mild case and who will not. Younger healthy people died from the disease, while some older people--like a 102 year old, as the newspaper reported--recovered.

We have no proof the ones who didn't get sick were exposed to infection.

We have no proof that they were not exposed. it is a very sneaky disease.

 

[Authentic Nouveau]

But not nearly as many as who got sick who did not get the vaccine.


Some were, but there is no way to predict who will get a mild case and who will not. Younger healthy people died from the disease, while some older people--like a 102 year old, as the newspaper reported--recovered.

We have no proof that they were not exposed. it is a very sneaky disease.

Just left winger talking points.

You are so wrong.
You are not educated enough to see how many people that got the shots are getting infections.

Any rational person can see more cases today where there are high levels of sheeple who fell for the shots have more sick people than a year ago before the shots.


When will ultra left wingers stop lying and calling it a vaccine?

It is not a sneaky disease.

You have just no medical credentials and the only source ultra leftistas follow lies. fauchee.

Since you don't understand physics either, you fell for the mask nonsense from atheeist fauchee.

Your Fake News letcha down.

 

[Authentic Nouveau]

"You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations," Biden said in the CNN interview.