Hard Data Shows the Covid Vaccines Don’t Work

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
Why? If it's effective then it shouldn't matter. You can still get it even from stabbed people and pass it on to other stabbed people. Know what that means? It doesn't work! Know why polio isn't a problem anymore?
Is the vaccine effective? That is the absolutely the wrong question to ask. The question to ask is how effective is the vaccine? What percentage of people with the vaccine die versus what percentage of people unvaccinated die?

Asking the right question is crucial.
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
Is the vaccine effective? That is the absolutely the wrong question to ask. The question to ask is how effective is the vaccine? What percentage of people with the vaccine die versus what percentage of people unvaccinated die?

Asking the right question is crucial.
I'll play along. Apparently dying FROM covid is important for you to avoid so you get the shit. Great! Why do you care if I get the shot if your chances of dying from covid after getting the shot are so low?
 

Theophilos

Active member
The last several months have seen a heated debate about the effectiveness of the vaccines that are being currently administered against Covid-19.
The question on many people’s minds is: Do these pharmaceuticals work?
Both sides tend to feel quite strongly about their position which gives rise to a great deal of emotion as the debate goes on.
The good news is that, being nearly a year into the vast vaccination enterprise, we now possess sufficient data to determine whether the shots are effective or not.
As we know, the objective of vaccination is to eliminate or significantly reduce the incidence of the targeted disease. If a vaccine works, then in a highly vaccinated population we will see either complete elimination of the disease or a significant decrease of its incidence.
Since it is usually not practicable to achieve a 100 percent inoculation rate, the question is what is the vaccination level that will either bring the disease under control or eliminate it altogether?
This level is sometimes referred to as “herd immunity.” We were told at first by experts, most notably Dr. Anthony Fauci, that the vaccination rate of 60 to 70 percent would confer herd immunity in regard to Covid 19.
Fauci’s position was roughly in line with our experience with many other diseases where such levels of inoculation have either eliminated them or made them endemic, i.e., sufficiently limited so that they do not pose a large-scale, epidemic-level threat to the community.
Some twelve months into the worldwide vaccination drive there are now a number of countries with vaccination rates of between 60 and 70 percent. There are also some countries and geographical areas with rates of 80 percent or above.
While we do not know the precise figure which would confer herd immunity against this disease, we can be sure of one thing: if the vaccines are effective, vaccination rates of more than sixty percent should result in a significant reduction in its incidence.
Yes, vaccines do not prevent outbreaks, but they do appear to reduce risk of serious illness for the earlier variants. The argument for coerced vaccination makes little sense since the main benefits and the main risks are personal.

At this point, the real question is whether the vaccines are of any benefit at all for the Omicron variant. Preliminary reports are that Omicron is cold-like. It is highly contagious but with just mild symptoms regardless of vaccination status.

Why get vaccinated for a cold?

 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
I'll play along. Apparently dying FROM covid is important for you to avoid so you get the shit. Great! Why do you care if I get the shot if your chances of dying from covid after getting the shot are so low?
I'm not clear if you agree that asking the question in an either/or framework - that is, either the vaccine is effective or it is not - is the wrong question to ask.
 

ferengi

Well-known member
Yes, vaccines do not prevent outbreaks, but they do appear to reduce risk of serious illness for the earlier variants. The argument for coerced vaccination makes little sense since the main benefits and the main risks are personal.

At this point, the real question is whether the vaccines are of any benefit at all for the Omicron variant. Preliminary reports are that Omicron is cold-like. It is highly contagious but with just mild symptoms regardless of vaccination status.

Why get vaccinated for a cold?

Only 1 f 3 are vaccines anyway
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
OMG - that's the same question - LOL
When one says that the vaccine isn't effective, one has answered the wrong question. If you ask "Is the vaccine effective," you are led to answer either yes or no. ETA: So when someone says, "The vaccine is not effective," they have answered the question, "Is the vaccine effective?"

When you ask "How effective is the vaccine," you are led to answer with percentages.
 

ferengi

Well-known member
When one says that the vaccine isn't effective, one has answered the wrong question. If you ask "Is the vaccine effective," you are led to answer either yes or no. When you ask "How effective is the vaccine," you are led to answer with percentages.
OMG - that's the same question - LOL
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
I'm not clear if you agree that asking the question in an either/or framework - that is, either the vaccine is effective or it is not - is the wrong question to ask.
The question I am asking is NOT an either/or question but you think it is. Let me restate my question, as effective as the vaccine is said to be why do you care if anyone else gets the stab? I never claimed it wasnt effective i have asked if its as effective as is claimed then it shouldnt matter to you if anyone else gets it.
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
Yes, vaccines do not prevent outbreaks, but they do appear to reduce risk of serious illness for the earlier variants. The argument for coerced vaccination makes little sense since the main benefits and the main risks are personal.

At this point, the real question is whether the vaccines are of any benefit at all for the Omicron variant. Preliminary reports are that Omicron is cold-like. It is highly contagious but with just mild symptoms regardless of vaccination status.

Why get vaccinated for a cold?

Nothing to argue about here
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
The question I am asking is NOT an either/or question but you think it is.
The question I was referring to, the one which is an either/or question, is not the one you are asking now, but the one you implicitly answered when you said the vaccine isn't effective. That's an answer to the question, "Is the vaccine effective?"
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
The question I was referring to, the one which is an either/or question, is not the one you are asking now, but the one you implicitly answered when you said the vaccine isn't effective. That's an answer to the question, "Is the vaccine effective?"
Really??? You completely ignored the actual point of my question. I think I know why.
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
Really??? You completely ignored the actual point of my question. I think I know why.
Depending on which question you mean, I"m trying to get resolution of the origin point between us, which is about the either/or question and the answer, "The vaccine is not effective" before we move on. That does back to post #68. When you said, "I'll play along," it was unclear to me whether you thought the either/or answer was proper or not, as I was claiming it was improper.
 
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