Has the Church Replaced Israel ?

GeneZ

Well-known member
Like the stars in the sky... that's how many children of the promise there are.
If you do not believe in Jesus you will not be counted among them. For those in Hosea who the Lord God called "not my people" were refusing to believe in the name of the Lord God! You must believe to be His. Like Moses did... Like David did. They were born again.

The religious Jews whom Jesus disdained, thought since they were the seed of Abraham, that they were saved by default.
 
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Jewjitzu

Well-known member
If you do not believe in Jesus you will not be counted among them. For those in Hosea who the Lord God called "not my people" were refusing to believe in the name of the Lord God! You must believe to be His. Like Moses did... Like David did. They were born again.

The religious Jews whom Jesus disdained, thought since they were the seed of Abraham, that they were saved by default.
Hosea has nothing to do with Jesus. And you've proven you and the NT take the verse out of context.

I do believe in God, just not Jesus.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Was Abraham born a Jew?
No. Was Jesus?

Better yet. Was Jesus a mamzer since he can't trace any physical father? Having a physical father other than the one your mother is married to would be a nasty blemish. To be human, you need the physical father's input.

Deut 23:2
No one of illegitimate birth may enter the assembly of the LORD, nor may any of his descendants, even to the tenth generation.

Adoption doesn't help in this case.
 
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GeneZ

Well-known member
No. Was Jesus?

Better yet. Was Jesus a mamzer since he can't trace any physical father? Having a physical father other than the one your mother is married to would be a nasty blemish. To be human, you need the physical father's input.

Deut 23:2
No one of illegitimate birth may enter the assembly of the LORD, nor may any of his descendants, even to the tenth generation.

Adoption doesn't help in this case.
The reason Jesus could not have a human father was because he had to be a "lamb without spot or blemish" to be an acceptable sacrifice.

Its through the man's sperm that the fallen nature is transferred. That is why it "oddly" proclaims in Genesis 3:15, that the Messiah will be born of the "seed of the woman." That was totally running contrary to the Jewish thinking that always saw the man as the "seed" of the progeny.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy
seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."


That thought ran absolutely counter to the Jewish patriarchal thinking of the day. It was always to be "the seed of the man."

Its the ovum of the women that does not transfer the sin defect to the embryo. Its the man's sperm! God was making that known.

Jesus could have no human father. And, Mary could have been the town tramp, and by God's grace, still be used to produce the sinless body for Jesus. The reason she was a virgin was so that we could know that Jesus had no human father. That he had no sin nature!

That is why the Holy Spirit needed to provide the needed untainted male genetic material to fertilize the ovum of Mary.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Hosea has nothing to do with Jesus. And you've proven you and the NT take the verse out of context.

I do believe in God, just not Jesus.

" You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder."
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
The reason Jesus could not have a human father was because he had to be a "lamb without spot or blemish" to be an acceptable sacrifice.

Its through the man's sperm that the fallen nature is transferred. That is why it "oddly" proclaims in Genesis 3:15, that the Messiah will be born of the "seed of the woman." That was totally running contrary to the Jewish thinking that always saw the man as the "seed" of the progeny.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy
seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."


That thought ran absolutely counter to the Jewish patriarchal thinking of the day. It was always to be "the seed of the man."

Its the ovum of the women that does not transfer the sin defect to the embryo. Its the man's sperm! God was making that known.

Jesus could have no human father. And, Mary could have been the town tramp, and by God's grace, still be used to produce the sinless body for Jesus. The reason she was a virgin was so that we could know that Jesus had no human father. That he had no sin nature!

That is why the Holy Spirit needed to provide the needed untainted male genetic material to fertilize the ovum of Mary.
Genesis 3:15 has nothing to do with Mary. And if it did, Mary was definitely not without sin. You have zero evidence that a man transfers sin. The context is Eve in this verse.

Nothing says the holy spirit provided anything. That would also make the HS the father, not the Father.

Either way, no right to be called the son of David when the genealogies are messed up for Jesus.

Do you know there are mentions in scripture of other women and their seed?

Genesis 16:10 Hagar
Genesis 24:60 Rebecca

And there are other verses.
 
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GeneZ

Well-known member
Genesis 3:15 has nothing to do with Mary. And if it did, Mary was definitely not without sin. You have zero evidence that a man transfers sin. The context is Eve in this verse.

Nothing says the holy spirit provided anything. That would also make the HS the father, not the Father.

Either way, no right to be called the son of David when the genealogies are messed up for Jesus.
You do not know how to listen to what is being said.

The genealogies are two. One to show that Joseph could not have been his father. The other, to show that Mary descended from David.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
You do not know how to listen to what is being said.

The genealogies are two. One to show that Joseph could not have been his father. The other, to show that Mary descended from David.
Zero mention of Mary's lineage.
Matrilineal descent matters zero in matters of tribal lineage anyway. Read Numbers 1.

Unless Jesus has a proven physical father, he is a mamzer. Maybe that's why the genealogies are convoluted to hide the facts.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
That's nice. You still messed up previously.
Keep in mind. I know something you are oblivious to. You are like I am watching a movie that I know will end.

I'm not concerned. For, if God knows you will believe? You can even persecute Christians, and in due time .. get your Divine shock
that will transform you. Like, Saul -(who later became Paul)- was murdering Jews who believed in Christ. God took Paul and transformed him into the genius apostle when the time was right.

I am not worried about saying something that would send you hell. I can't do it. After all. With all the Christians I knew that made me feel I wanted no part of Christianity? Here I stand and unashamed of saying I believe in Jesus Christ.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Keep in mind. I know something you are oblivious to. You are like I am watching a movie that I know will end.

I'm not concerned. For, if God knows you will believe? You can even persecute Christians, and in due time .. get your Divine shock
that will transform you. Like, Saul -(who later became Paul)- was murdering Jews who believed in Christ. God took Paul and transformed him into the genius apostle when the time was right.

I am not worried about saying something that would send you hell. I can't do it. After all. With all the Christians I knew that made me feel I wanted no part of Christianity? Here I stand and unashamed of saying I believe in Jesus Christ.
That's nice. You still messed up the previous context and was wrong.

Paul was never transformed, a Pharisee, a prophet, etc., just an apostate.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Zero mention of Mary's lineage.
Matrilineal descent matters zero in matters of tribal lineage anyway. Read Numbers 1.

Unless Jesus has a proven physical father, he is a mamzer. Maybe that's why the genealogies are convoluted to hide the facts.
No "seed of the woman" found in those tribal lineages. Genesis 3:15 says that the Messiah will come by the "seed of a woman."

The genealogies were not designed to show that Jesus had a human father. He was to be born of a virgin.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
No "seed of the woman" found in those tribal lineages. Genesis 3:15 says that the Messiah will come by the "seed of a woman."

The genealogies were not designed to show that Jesus had a human father. He was to be born of a virgin.
You need to look at the Hebrew. Descendants is the same as seed. In the feminine form.

Zero mention of Messiah in Genesis 3:15? Why make this up? No mention of a virgin either.

So, Messiah comes from Rebecca, right? Genesis 24:60
 
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