Has the Church Replaced Israel ?

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
I am made "able" to believe it was.

When one gets over the shock to his system, by Jesus becoming real and alive to him in the Spirit? Suddenly the Bible becomes a delight to be able to believe.

I did not choose to believe the Bible is true until after regeneration... Which confused and perplexed me for about ten years after saying a simple prayer that had no idea would lead to an inner change that was both revolutionary to my way of living, and making me feel like a fish out of water. Ten years it took to find that water when someone handed me a Bible in English that I could readily understand.
Why do you think this was a real account?
 

GeneZ

Active member
Well, Paul was wrong. There are plenty of Jews, Gentiles, Men, and Women, around. Nothing has changed.

You are using Scripture for the future Israel.

I was born and raised a Jew. My father was instrumental in founding the local synagogue I had my bar mitzvah in.

When I decided to believe in Jesus I expected nothing to change other than I was at a low point in my life and knew that to start eating kosher was not going to save me from such a state. I simply wanted to say the prayer I read on a tract handed to me while walking down the hall on main campus during the Viet Nam era... I did not expect anything to change. But, I ceased being the person I used to be, and painfully could not figure out what was the cause. I tried seeking therapy for a short time, but I could see it was shallow and a dead end. I also began getting invited by people to meetings of sects and the like. They were shallow and meaningless to me.

I had dreams and visons of my life flash before my eyes around age 19-20. I saw where I am now at age 72.

Now, that does not happen to everyone who becomes born again. But, God knowing me, knew I had to see these things being totally oblivious to what they could mean, unless I succumbed later to thinking I was to be where I got to by the power of suggestion. I had no idea where I was to go to.

I was a blank slate in regards to Christian doctrine. Yet, in 1968 I had a dream about running for shelter in a shaking world into a building that I had no idea what it could mean. Ten years later I found it. By myself seated in main chapel in a Bible college I attended. Still fighting it and telling myself I might be imagining it to be what I saw in the dream. It took me s while to adjust to become sure. Its not something someone accepts quickly. It stuns you. Also.. in 1968 that building was not a Bible college. It was a military school for boys.

How did I end up finding the school? May sister opened up her house for Bible studies. I was invited to attend. Those giving the Bible study were students from that Bible college over two hours away by car.... One of them invited me up to the school. That was when I realized the dream came true.

Take it for what its worth.... Everything changed. Those who are unregenerated remain unchanged.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
You are using Scripture for the future Israel.

I was born and raised a Jew. My father was instrumental in founding the local synagogue I had my bar mitzvah in.

When I decided to believe in Jesus I expected nothing to change other than I was at a low point in my life and knew that to start eating kosher was not going to save me from such a state. I simply wanted to say the prayer I read on a tract handed to me while walking down the hall on main campus during the Viet Nam era... I did not expect anything to change. But, I ceased being the person I used to be, and painfully could not figure out what was the cause. I tried seeking therapy for a short time, but I could see it was shallow and a dead end. I also began getting invited by people to meetings of sects and the like. They were shallow and meaningless to me.

I had dreams and visons of my life flash before my eyes around age 19-20. I saw where I am now at age 72.

Now, that does not happen to everyone who becomes born again. But, God knowing me, knew I had to see these things being totally oblivious to what they could mean, unless I succumbed later to thinking I was to be where I got to by the power of suggestion. I had no idea where I was to go to.

I was a blank slate in regards to Christian doctrine. Yet, in 1968 I had a dream about running for shelter in a shaking world into a building that I had no idea what it could mean. Ten years later I found it. By myself seated in main chapel in a Bible college I attended. Still fighting it and telling myself I might be imagining it to be what I saw in the dream. It took me s while to adjust to become sure. Its not something someone accepts quickly. It stuns you. Also.. in 1968 that building was not a Bible college. It was a military school for boys.

How did I end up finding the school? May sister opened up her house for Bible studies. I was invited to attend. Those giving the Bible study were students from that Bible college over two hours away by car.... One of them invited me up to the school. That was when I realized the dream came true.

Take it for what its worth.... Everything changed. Those who are unregenerated remain unchanged.
No, Israel is still with us today. You haven't even addressed anything. Please don't give me your "come to Jesus" story. I'm not interested.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

No, The Church has always been Israel, but not Israel after the flesh, or the physical nation of Israel See within the physical nation of Israel was always a remnant according to the election of Grace, which is also Israel. Now under the Old Covenant Spiritual Israel, the Body of Christ was mostly comprised of saved jewish Christians. They would usually be persecuted by the non christian jews in the nation Matt 5:12


Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets[Believers in Crist] which were before you.

Lk 13:34



O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Now under the New Covenant, Body of Christ Israel the election of Grace has been multiplied by saving and grafting in multitudes into Spiritual Israel, which is still the Body of Christ ! So The Body of Christ, Israel according to the Spirit, the Election of Grace is not a replacement, it always has been, its now clarified who they are.

Are you familiar with the purpose of a future tense verb?

I will build my church. - Jesus
 

GeneZ

Active member
No, Israel is still with us today. You haven't even addressed anything. Please don't give me your "come to Jesus" story. I'm not interested.

Why do you come to a Christian forum then? Not interested. So, what does interest you here?
 

GeneZ

Active member
You think this was an actual account? You know, there is nothing in Tanakh that supports that OT saints were saved on account of Jesus, or waiting for him.
The OT saints in Sheol believed in the one who was to become Jesus. They referred to Him as the Lord God of Israel.

Jesus was the Lord God of Israel who made Himself to become as a man.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
The OT saints in Sheol believed in the one who was to become Jesus. They referred to Him as the Lord God of Israel.

Jesus was the Lord God of Israel who made Himself to become as a man.
That's not true. No support for your statements.
 

GeneZ

Active member
If you can, answer.
Moses knew the Lord was real. David knew the Lord was real.

They did not simply will themselves to "believe" he was real because some rabbi told them to do so. They knew.

You know you are supposed to think God is real. For me, its no longer something I am to suppose. I know.

I also know, you do not.

Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me,
and the one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him
and reveal myself to him.”


or, would you prefer....


The one having the mitzvot of me and being shomer mitzvot, that one is
the one having ahavah for me. And the one having ahavah for me will receive
ahavah from HaAv of me, and I will have ahavah for him and
I will manifest
myself to him."


John 14:21
 

GeneZ

Active member
That's not true. No support for your statements.

The Lord God of Israel manifested two natures in union before the Church age began. He was both God and Soul.

The Incarnation was a matter of that Soul of the Lord God taking on the form of a man. For, the Soul remained being a Soul.


'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new.
Moreover, I will make My dwelling among you, and My soul will not
reject you.'I will also walk among you and be your God, and you
shall be My people."
Lev 26:10-12



And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to serve Jehovah,
so that his soul became impatient because of the trouble of Israel. Jdges 10:16



Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone
loving violence his soul certainly hates."
Ps 11:5



“Bring no more futile sacrifices; Incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons,
the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies— I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred
meeting. Your New Moons and your appointed feasts My soul hates; They are a trouble
to Me, I am weary of bearing them..
Isa 1:13-14


The Lord God of Israel possessed two natures in union. Soul and Deity! Mind you, that was before the Incarnation. The Lord God's Soul was the reason the Lord God of Isarel was able to make Himself become as a man. Becoming a man by denying Himself to His full right to all the powers of what His Deity afforded Him.


Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something
to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!"

Philippians 2:6-8
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Moses knew the Lord was real. David knew the Lord was real.

They did not simply will themselves to "believe" he was real because some rabbi told them to do so. They knew.

You know you are supposed to think God is real. For me, its no longer something I am to suppose. I know.

I also know, you do not.

Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me,
and the one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him
and reveal myself to him.”


or, would you prefer....


The one having the mitzvot of me and being shomer mitzvot, that one is
the one having ahavah for me. And the one having ahavah for me will receive
ahavah from HaAv of me, and I will have ahavah for him and
I will manifest
myself to him."


John 14:21
Aaaw, transliterated Hebrew, how cute. The NT will do nothing for me.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
The Lord God of Israel manifested two natures in union before the Church age began. He was both God and Soul.

The Incarnation was a matter of that Soul of the Lord God taking on the form of a man. For, the Soul remained being a Soul.


'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new.
Moreover, I will make My dwelling among you, and My soul will not
reject you.'I will also walk among you and be your God, and you
shall be My people."
Lev 26:10-12



And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to serve Jehovah,
so that his soul became impatient because of the trouble of Israel. Jdges 10:16



Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone
loving violence his soul certainly hates."
Ps 11:5



“Bring no more futile sacrifices; Incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons,
the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies— I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred
meeting. Your New Moons and your appointed feasts My soul hates; They are a trouble
to Me, I am weary of bearing them..
Isa 1:13-14


The Lord God of Israel possessed two natures in union. Soul and Deity! Mind you, that was before the Incarnation. The Lord God's Soul was the reason the Lord God of Isarel was able to make Himself become as a man. Becoming a man by denying Himself to His full right to all the powers of what His Deity afforded Him.


Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something
to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!"


Philippians 2:6-8
And yet God is not a man, nor fresh and blood.

You contradict yourself quite a bit.
 

GeneZ

Active member
And yet God is not a man, nor fresh and blood.

You contradict yourself quite a bit.

Correct. God is not a man. Jesus has two natures, not only one. He is unique.

Who appeared to Moses in the burning bush and declared Himself to be Jehovah?

Who did Moses speak to face to face as a man? Exodus 33:10-11

Who stopped to speak with Abraham (Genesis 18:20-33) while the two angels continued walking towards Sodom?
 

GeneZ

Active member
That's interesting. Now you're an apostate.

I imagine you're eating all sorts of things.
What's worse? Eating some things you hold taboos about?

Or, neglecting the following?

When someone from the community of Isra’el or one of the foreigners living with you
eats any kind of blood, I will set myself against that person who eats blood and cut
him off from his people.
For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given
it to you on the altar to make atonement for yourselves; for it is the blood that
makes atonement because of the life.’ Leviticus 17:10-11

The Temple has been down for over 2000 years. The Levitical Priesthood is no longer functioning.

Why has God neglected Jews for so long about what He demanded for making atonement for your sins?

Are your sins now atoned for? By simply not eating food for one day? God did not say he gave us fasting for atonement.

My Dad used to blow the shofar during Yom Kippur service.
 

GeneZ

Active member
Aaaw, transliterated Hebrew, how cute. The NT will do nothing for me.
That was from an Orthodox Jewish translation, those who believe in Jesus.

I knew a pastor who was orthodox before coming to Christ. His dad was an orthodox rabbi.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
You made a factual statement. But it failed to address what I was stating.

Try again, please?

In the Millennium when some of us will qualify to reign with Christ...

The Jews during the Millennium will be re-established as once again being the spiritual 'big-brother' (as Jews) to all believers during the 1000 years in the new earth.

Here is evidence of what I speak....

This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages
and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say,
‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.’”

Zechariah 8:23
Again it's the church the body of Christ!
 
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