He has perfected forever.....

[SteveB]

I see an OP that quotes Jesus' statement....

Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.

So, here's my question...


How do we achieve this "be perfect"?

As perfect in my opinion is an unattainable ideal, it strikes me that it's necessary to learn what this perfect means.....


So, thankfully, the Greek language actually has a description.

Turns out the word, in Greek, is telioo.

Mat 5:48 OGNT
Ἔσεσθε Esesthe esesθe to be
οὖν oun un then
ὑμεῖς hymeis iymiys you
τέλειοι teleioi teliyiy perfect
ὡς hōs os as
ὁ ho o the
Πατὴρ Patēr patiyr father
ὑμῶν hymōn iymon of you
ὁ ho o the
οὐράνιος ouranios uraniyos heavenly
τέλειός teleios teliyos perfect
ἐστιν estin estiyn is.¶

The Strong's # is G5046

It means
complete.
Whole
Entire, lacking nothing.

G5046​

Original: τέλειος

Transliteration: teleios

Phonetic: tel'-i-os

Thayer Definition:

1. brought to its end, finished
2. wanting nothing necessary to completeness
3. perfect
4. that which is perfect
   1. consummate human integrity and virtue
   2. of men
      1. full grown, adult, of full age, mature

Origin: from G5056

TDNT entry: 09:07,1

Part(s) of speech: Adjective

Strong's Definition: From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

Total KJV Occurrences: 19

perfect (9)
Mat 5:48; Mat 5:48; Mat 19:21; Rom 12:2; Col 1:28; Col 4:12; Jas 1:4; Jas 1:17; 1Jn 4:18 8

them that are perfect (1)
1Co 2:6

that which is perfect (1)
1Co 13:10

men (1)
1Co 14:20

a perfect (1)
Eph 4:13

be perfect (1)
Phi 3:15

of full age (1)
Heb 5:14

more perfect (1)
Heb 9:11

her perfect (1)
Jas 1:4

the perfect (1)
Jas 1:25

is a perfect (1)
Jas 3:2


Heb 10:14 OGNT
μιᾷ mia miya one
γὰρ gar gar for
προσφορᾷ prosphora prosfora offering
τετελείωκεν teteleiōken teteliyoken to perfect
εἰς eis iys toward
τὸ to to the
διηνεκὲς diēnekes ðiyiynekes perpetual
τοὺς tous tus who
ἁγιαζομένους hagiazomenous ayiyazomenus to sanctify.


G5048
Original: τελειόω

Transliteration: teleioō

Phonetic: tel-i-o'-o

Thayer Definition:

to make perfect, complete
to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end
to complete (perfect)
add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full
to be found perfect
to bring to the end (goal) proposed
to accomplish
bring to a close or fulfilment by event
of the prophecies of the scriptures
Origin: from G5046

TDNT entry: 09:19,1

Part(s) of speech: Verb

Strong's Definition: From G5046; to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.

Total KJV Occurrences: 33

when they had fulfilled (1)
Luk 2:43

day i shall be perfected (1)
Luk 13:32

to finish (1)
Joh 4:34

finish (1)
Joh 5:36

i have finished (1)
Joh 17:4

made perfect (5)
Joh 17:23; Heb 12:23; Jas 2:22; 1Jn 4:17; 1Jn 4:18 5

might be fulfilled (1)
Joh 19:28

that i might finish (1)
Act 20:24

is made perfect (1)
2Co 12:9

perfect (5)
Phi 3:12; Heb 2:10; Heb 7:19; Heb 9:9; Heb 10:1 5

to make (1)
Heb 2:10

being made perfect (1)
Heb 5:9

made (1)
Heb 7:19

who is consecrated (1)
Heb 7:28

make (2)
Heb 9:9; Heb 10:1

he hath perfected (1)
Heb 10:14

they (1)
Heb 11:40

should (1)
Heb 11:40

be made perfect (1)
Heb 11:40

was (1)
Jas 2:22

is (2)
1Jn 2:5; 1Jn 4:18

perfected (2)
1Jn 2:5; 1Jn 4:12

In plain English, God has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

I.e., this is a really good thing.
We obviously can't perfect ourselves. For those who are older among us, we've figured that out.

So, God has given us his perfection.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I see an OP that quotes Jesus' statement....

Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.

So, here's my question...


How do we achieve this "be perfect"?

As perfect in my opinion is an unattainable ideal, it strikes me that it's necessary to learn what this perfect means.....


So, thankfully, the Greek language actually has a description.

Turns out the word, in Greek, is telioo.

Mat 5:48 OGNT
Ἔσεσθε Esesthe esesθe to be
οὖν oun un then
ὑμεῖς hymeis iymiys you
τέλειοι teleioi teliyiy perfect
ὡς hōs os as
ὁ ho o the
Πατὴρ Patēr patiyr father
ὑμῶν hymōn iymon of you
ὁ ho o the
οὐράνιος ouranios uraniyos heavenly
τέλειός teleios teliyos perfect
ἐστιν estin estiyn is.¶

The Strong's # is G5046

It means
complete.
Whole
Entire, lacking nothing.

G5046​

Original: τέλειος

Transliteration: teleios

Phonetic: tel'-i-os

Thayer Definition:

1. brought to its end, finished
2. wanting nothing necessary to completeness
3. perfect
4. that which is perfect
   1. consummate human integrity and virtue
   2. of men
      1. full grown, adult, of full age, mature

Origin: from G5056

TDNT entry: 09:07,1

Part(s) of speech: Adjective

Strong's Definition: From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

Total KJV Occurrences: 19

perfect (9)
Mat 5:48; Mat 5:48; Mat 19:21; Rom 12:2; Col 1:28; Col 4:12; Jas 1:4; Jas 1:17; 1Jn 4:18 8

them that are perfect (1)
1Co 2:6

that which is perfect (1)
1Co 13:10

men (1)
1Co 14:20

a perfect (1)
Eph 4:13

be perfect (1)
Phi 3:15

of full age (1)
Heb 5:14

more perfect (1)
Heb 9:11

her perfect (1)
Jas 1:4

the perfect (1)
Jas 1:25

is a perfect (1)
Jas 3:2


Heb 10:14 OGNT
μιᾷ mia miya one
γὰρ gar gar for
προσφορᾷ prosphora prosfora offering
τετελείωκεν teteleiōken teteliyoken to perfect
εἰς eis iys toward
τὸ to to the
διηνεκὲς diēnekes ðiyiynekes perpetual
τοὺς tous tus who
ἁγιαζομένους hagiazomenous ayiyazomenus to sanctify.


G5048
Original: τελειόω

Transliteration: teleioō

Phonetic: tel-i-o'-o

Thayer Definition:

to make perfect, complete
to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end
to complete (perfect)
add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full
to be found perfect
to bring to the end (goal) proposed
to accomplish
bring to a close or fulfilment by event
of the prophecies of the scriptures
Origin: from G5046

TDNT entry: 09:19,1

Part(s) of speech: Verb

Strong's Definition: From G5046; to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.

Total KJV Occurrences: 33

when they had fulfilled (1)
Luk 2:43

day i shall be perfected (1)
Luk 13:32

to finish (1)
Joh 4:34

finish (1)
Joh 5:36

i have finished (1)
Joh 17:4

made perfect (5)
Joh 17:23; Heb 12:23; Jas 2:22; 1Jn 4:17; 1Jn 4:18 5

might be fulfilled (1)
Joh 19:28

that i might finish (1)
Act 20:24

is made perfect (1)
2Co 12:9

perfect (5)
Phi 3:12; Heb 2:10; Heb 7:19; Heb 9:9; Heb 10:1 5

to make (1)
Heb 2:10

being made perfect (1)
Heb 5:9

made (1)
Heb 7:19

who is consecrated (1)
Heb 7:28

make (2)
Heb 9:9; Heb 10:1

he hath perfected (1)
Heb 10:14

they (1)
Heb 11:40

should (1)
Heb 11:40

be made perfect (1)
Heb 11:40

was (1)
Jas 2:22

is (2)
1Jn 2:5; 1Jn 4:18

perfected (2)
1Jn 2:5; 1Jn 4:12

In plain English, God has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

I.e., this is a really good thing.
We obviously can't perfect ourselves. For those who are older among us, we've figured that out.

So, God has given us his perfection.

Thank you for the lesson.Its nice to learn something good for a change.

 

[SteveB]

Thank you for the lesson.Its nice to learn something good for a change.

Right!?

The goal is to grow in Christ.

 

[JonHawk]

I see an OP that quotes Jesus' statement....Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.

So, here's my question...How do we achieve this "be perfect"?

Jesus is the answer for the world today
Above Him there's no other, Jesus is the way

As perfect in my opinion is an unattainable ideal, it strikes me that it's necessary to learn what this perfect means.....
So, thankfully, the Greek language actually has a description.
Turns out the word, in Greek, is telioo.
Mat 5:48 OGNT Ἔσεσθε Esesthe esesθe to be οὖν oun un then ὑμεῖς hymeis iymiys you τέλειοι teleioi teliyiy perfect ὡς hōs os as ὁ ho o the Πατὴρ Patēr patiyr father ὑμῶν hymōn iymon of you ὁ ho o the οὐράνιος ouranios uraniyos heavenly τέλειός teleios teliyos perfect ἐστιν estin estiyn is.¶ The Strong's # is G5046
It means complete. Whole Entire, lacking nothing. G5046 Original: τέλειος Transliteration: teleios Phonetic: tel'-i-os
Thayer Definition: brought to its end, finished; wanting nothing necessary to completeness; perfect; that which is perfect; consummate human integrity and virtue of men; full grown, adult, of full age, mature
Origin: from G5056 TDNT entry: 09:07,1 Part(s) of speech: Adjective Strong's Definition: From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.
Total KJV Occurrences: 19 perfect (9) Mat 5:48; Mat 5:48; Mat 19:21; Rom 12:2; Col 1:28; Col 4:12; Jas 1:4; Jas 1:17; 1Jn 4:18 8
them that are perfect (1) 1Co 2:6 that which is perfect (1) 1Co 13:10 men (1) 1Co 14:20 a perfect (1) Eph 4:13 be perfect (1) Phi 3:15 of full age (1)
Heb 5:14 more perfect (1) Heb 9:11 her perfect (1) Jas 1:4 the perfect (1) Jas 1:25 is a perfect (1) Jas 3:2 Heb 10:14 OGNT μιᾷ mia miya one γὰρ gar gar for
προσφορᾷ prosphora prosfora offering τετελείωκεν teteleiōken teteliyoken to perfect εἰς eis iys toward τὸ to to the διηνεκὲς diēnekes ðiyiynekes perpetual
τοὺς tous tus who ἁγιαζομένους hagiazomenous ayiyazomenus to sanctify.
G5048 Original: τελειόω Transliteration: teleioō Phonetic: tel-i-o'-o Thayer Definition: to make perfect, complete to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end to complete (perfect) add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full to be found perfect to bring to the end (goal) proposed to accomplish
bring to a close or fulfilment by event of the prophecies of the scriptures Origin: from G5046 TDNT entry: 09:19,1 Part(s) of speech: Verb Strong's Definition:
From G5046; to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect. Total KJV Occurrences: 33 when they had fulfilled (1) Luk 2:43 day i shall be perfected (1) Luk 13:32 to finish (1) Joh 4:34 finish (1) Joh 5:36 i have finished (1) Joh 17:4 made perfect (5)
Joh 17:23; Heb 12:23; Jas 2:22; 1Jn 4:17; 1Jn 4:18 5 might be fulfilled (1) Joh 19:28 that i might finish (1) Act 20:24 is made perfect (1) 2Co 12:9 perfect (5) Phi 3:12; Heb 2:10; Heb 7:19; Heb 9:9; Heb 10:1 5 to make (1) Heb 2:10 being made perfect (1) Heb 5:9 made (1) Heb 7:19 who is consecrated (1) Heb 7:28 make (2) Heb 9:9; Heb 10:1 he hath perfected (1) Heb 10:14 they (1) Heb 11:40 should (1) Heb 11:40 be made perfect (1) Heb 11:40 was (1) Jas 2:22 is (2) 1Jn 2:5; 1Jn 4:18 perfected (2) 1Jn 2:5; 1Jn 4:12

In plain English, God has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
I.e., this is a really good thing. We obviously can't perfect ourselves. For those who are older among us, we've figured that out.
So, God has given us his perfection.

Him we preach that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. Col 1:27-28

 

[SteveB]

Jesus is the answer for the world today
Above Him there's no other, Jesus is the way

Him we preach that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. Col 1:27-28

?

 

[Gary Mac]

I have been quoting Matt 5:48 in this forum for years and it is so funny to watch the replies. Many here accuse that statement as gnostic lies and mock me with statements of ole Gary Mac think he's Jesus LOL, only because they cant relate to Gods perfection from lack in being born of Gods Spirit, born again, which is perfection to have Gods same mind, or Spirit the mind is called, as Jesus receieved in Matt 3:16. And some even deny the Bible and say Jesus didnt need to be born again with a renewing of His mind when it is ver very clear that God did change His disposition from the laws for sin and became the vessel for Love. None of us are exempt from the same if they are to be that perfect person of Christ who is anointed off God just as Jesus became in Matt 3:16. The very same happens in us.

How do I know? The same way Jesus knew by God manifesting Himself in us, Matt 3:16 is the proof how God comes into mans minds and hearts!

Spirit is who we are, not what we are.

The only thing perfect on this planet is Love. Love cant be changed, you cant regulate it by laws, it is the same yesterday as today and will be the same tomorrow for God is Love and either He be in you that you have a mind that is Holy Love, or Holy Spirit, it is called, to walk as He walks in His same mind, or light that knowledge is called.


Jesus was not of this mind before Matt 3:16 and taught the laws of the Jewish denomination in their temple even from a young age, but the day God came to him in Matt 3:16 and opened up who He is and all of His heaven, which simply is Love in that man and we all can read how his life changed from the law to a Spirit of Love.

God is so simple but man in his religious beliefs has a very very difficult in being that person of Christ who is anointed of Gods Love to have His same mind and when you repeat that what Jesus said you should be and would be if you recieve from the Father the very same as he did from the Father they mock and most of them just as with Jesus for the very same reason try and silence me by putting me on ignore.

Gotta Love it for God is Love and I am a recipient of His inheritance. Jesus tells us to expect it if we have the same from the Father as he had. And Jesus was very clear to his prayer to our God that the Father be in me and I be in Him as one no different from He was in Jesus and Jesus was in Him as one in John 17.

Funny how people think that I think I am Jesus Christ ROFLOL. Perfection Of God never has never their minds has it? Jesus referred to this change in habit as Born Again a renewing to a perfect mind. for one who is of Love is perfect in it.

 

[JonHawk]

I have been quoting Matt 5:48 in this forum for years and it is so funny to watch the replies. Many here accuse that statement as gnostic lies and mock me with statements of ole Gary Mac think he's Jesus LOL, .... some even deny the Bible and say Jesus didnt need to be born again with a renewing of His mind when it is ver very clear that God did change His disposition from the laws for sin ...How do I know? The same way Jesus knew by God manifesting Himself in us, Matt 3:16 is the proof how God comes into mans minds and hearts!
Jesus was not of this mind before Matt 3:16 and taught the laws of the Jewish denomination in their temple even from a young age, but the day God came to him in Matt 3:16 and opened up who He is and all of His heaven, which simply is Love in that man and we all can read how his life changed from the law to a Spirit of Love.
Gotta Love it for God is Love and I am a recipient of His inheritance.
Funny how people think that I think I am Jesus Christ ROFLOL.

Relax gnostic, nobody in their right mind has you confused with the mediator of the new covenant.
The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 1 John 3:8
For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant. Hebrews 9:15

 

[Gary Mac]

Relax gnostic, nobody in their right mind has you confused with the mediator of the new covenant.

Thats right the ones in their right mind are like Him as well. However this is the One that you do not know.

The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 1 John 3:8

Not for you for you are the evil sinner that you say you are. He hasn't destroyed that evil mind you accuse Him in His ways as a liar.

For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant. Hebrews 9:15

And Christ was the mediator between Jesus and God for Christ is Gods anointing in man. You just cant relate to Gods anointing to have Christ in you as He was in Jesus. See Matt 3:16 -- this is when Jesus became anointed by Gods Spirit, and I can relate to the same for God is manifested in us all who will receive Him and not call Him a gnostic liar only because you dont, or can not, believe that God came to Jesus by His Spirit and opened up who He is and all of His heaven in that man.

You read Matt 3:16 but dont believe it. Ether that or you have not read it at all and comment in complete ignorance for it really does say God came to Jesus by His Spirit and opens all of it to Jesus. You believe the opinions of one such as Paul instead. Paul is your teacher for sin, that is why you call the ways of the Father a gnostic liar.

 

[SteveB]

I have been quoting Matt 5:48 in this forum for years and it is so funny to watch the replies. Many here accuse that statement as gnostic lies and mock me with statements of ole Gary Mac think he's Jesus LOL, only because they cant relate to Gods perfection from lack in being born of Gods Spirit, born again, which is perfection to have Gods same mind, or Spirit the mind is called, as Jesus receieved in Matt 3:16. And some even deny the Bible and say Jesus didnt need to be born again with a renewing of His mind when it is ver very clear that God did change His disposition from the laws for sin and became the vessel for Love. None of us are exempt from the same if they are to be that perfect person of Christ who is anointed off God just as Jesus became in Matt 3:16. The very same happens in us.

How do I know? The same way Jesus knew by God manifesting Himself in us, Matt 3:16 is the proof how God comes into mans minds and hearts!

Spirit is who we are, not what we are.

The only thing perfect on this planet is Love. Love cant be changed, you cant regulate it by laws, it is the same yesterday as today and will be the same tomorrow for God is Love and either He be in you that you have a mind that is Holy Love, or Holy Spirit, it is called, to walk as He walks in His same mind, or light that knowledge is called.


Jesus was not of this mind before Matt 3:16 and taught the laws of the Jewish denomination in their temple even from a young age, but the day God came to him in Matt 3:16 and opened up who He is and all of His heaven, which simply is Love in that man and we all can read how his life changed from the law to a Spirit of Love.

God is so simple but man in his religious beliefs has a very very difficult in being that person of Christ who is anointed of Gods Love to have His same mind and when you repeat that what Jesus said you should be and would be if you recieve from the Father the very same as he did from the Father they mock and most of them just as with Jesus for the very same reason try and silence me by putting me on ignore.

Gotta Love it for God is Love and I am a recipient of His inheritance. Jesus tells us to expect it if we have the same from the Father as he had. And Jesus was very clear to his prayer to our God that the Father be in me and I be in Him as one no different from He was in Jesus and Jesus was in Him as one in John 17.

Funny how people think that I think I am Jesus Christ ROFLOL. Perfection Of God never has never their minds has it? Jesus referred to this change in habit as Born Again a renewing to a perfect mind. for one who is of Love is perfect in it.

?
Um......
Ok....
I decided to post a separate OP, because I didn't want my comments to get buried in an already existent conversation about Matthew 5:48.

As stated elsewhere on this forum, I don't typically spend a lot of time in forums other than the atheist forum, because my goal is to call sinners to repentance and leave those who actually are righteous to continue following Jesus in the manner they believe he's called them to. And those who are convinced of their own righteousness to their own devices.
As is written in the Proverbs- the backslider in heart is fill with their own ways.

Occasionally I will come to encourage the godly, so they can continue to grow in Christ.

That's what this OP is about.

Encouragement of the godly.

In Hebrews 10, we're seeing something that is to clarify what Jesus said in Matthew 5.

We are indeed to be whole, complete, perfect. According to Hebrews 10:10, Jesus sanctified us by the offering of his body.
According to Hebrews 10:14, Jesus has made whole, complete, and perfect forever, everyone who is being sanctified.

This concept is extremely important because it takes our focus off our own respective abilities to perfect ourselves and places them squarely on Jesus, who has already provided us with the Perfection that God commands of us.

So, if you're going to make this about you and your beliefs, please don't. Let the godly learn to focus on Jesus, as is written in Hebrews 12:1-2.

To keep our attention on Jesus, who is the author and finisher of our faith.

 

[JonHawk]

Thats right the ones in their right mind are like Him as well. However this is the One that you do not know.

In the pride of your heart you say, “I am a gnostic god" but you are a mere mortal;
And you will die the death of the uncircumcised. Ezekiel 28:

Not for you for you are the evil sinner that you say you are. He hasn't destroyed that evil mind you accuse Him in His ways as a liar.

The Lord has prepared a sacrifice and has consecrated those he has invited.
On the day of the Lord’s sacrifice I will punish all deceptive gnostics clad in foreign clothes. Zephaniah 1:7-9

You read Matt 3:16 but dont believe it. Ether that or you have not read it at all and comment in complete ignorance for it really does say God came to Jesus by His Spirit and opens all of it to Jesus.

When any of the Israelites or any foreigner residing in Israel separate themselves from Me, I will remove them from my inheritance. Then you will know that I am the Lord. Ezekiel 14:6-8

You believe the opinions of one such as Paul instead.

Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: “My servants will eat, but you will go hungry; my servants will drink, but you will go thirsty; my servants will rejoice, but you will be put to shame. Isaiah 65:13

Paul is your teacher for sin, that is why you call the ways of the Father a gnostic liar.

Knowing your gnostic father's teaching isn't going to help in the day of the Lord Jesus. The gnostic liar is whoever denies the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Lord Jesus has all things planned and the destiny of wicked gnostics is perdition. Prov 16:4

Those who reject Christ Jesus are destined for perdition.
“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”
See I lay stone in Zion 1 Peter 2

 

[Gary Mac]

?
Um......
Ok....
I decided to post a separate OP, because I didn't want my comments to get buried in an already existent conversation about Matthew 5:48.

As stated elsewhere on this forum, I don't typically spend a lot of time in forums other than the atheist forum, because my goal is to call sinners to repentance and leave those who actually are righteous to continue following Jesus in the manner they believe he's called them to. And those who are convinced of their own righteousness to their own devices.
As is written in the Proverbs- the backslider in heart is fill with their own ways.

Occasionally I will come to encourage the godly, so they can continue to grow in Christ.

That's what this OP is about.

Encouragement of the godly.

In Hebrews 10, we're seeing something that is to clarify what Jesus said in Matthew 5.

We are indeed to be whole, complete, perfect. According to Hebrews 10:10, Jesus sanctified us by the offering of his body.
According to Hebrews 10:14, Jesus has made whole, complete, and perfect forever, everyone who is being sanctified.

But Paul was a sinner, said he was, struggled with it, did the things he didnt want to do but did them anyway. How can Paul say he is a sinner yet of the One who is without sin as Jesus was of?

That doesnt make any sense for me. A person is of sin or he is of Christ born of God, born again to be like Him instead of like Paul or any other person. 1 John 3 is very clear that God takes away the sins of this world. How did God fail to do that in Paul or any other who's confession they are sinners instead of the righteousness of God in Christ?

That is why I follow the ways of Jesus instead of any other man.

This concept is extremely important because it takes our focus off our own respective abilities to perfect ourselves and places them squarely on Jesus, who has already provided us with the Perfection that God commands of us.

Jesus was Gods example to me for who I should be in Him. There is so much evidence in Jesus words that Gods desire for me is to be exactly like His example sent who also was exactly like his God and in His same image just as we all are who has received from God the same information He put into Jesus in Matt 3:16.

So, if you're going to make this about you and your beliefs, please don't.

How many times do I have to sate that I do not have a belief about God or Jesus. Gods manifestation of Himself in me just as He manifested Himself in Jesus in Matt 3:16, is not a belief but the reality of His purpose. If you see His purpose only as a belief, you have not gone far enough forward in Him where Goid Himself comes to you and opens up all of who He is and His heaven in you and Jesus was no exception for this even.

Adam Abraham Moses, 120, all of these God came personally and revealed Himself - Himself just as He will do today if people will drop the beliefs and recieve His reality. Beliefs are not real, beliefs is only speculation and governed by laws to regulate that belief. Catholic, Mormons, 7th Day, AOGs, LDS, Baptists, etc, all of these have a belief about a god, even atheists has a belief about a god. How many of these do you know who are as Jesus was as God sent and commands of us if we are to be His child, son, and that person of Christ who is anointed by God Himself?

Let the godly learn to focus on Jesus, as is written in Hebrews 12:1-2. keep our attention on Jesus, who is the author and finisher of our faith.

Yes instead on leaning on the beliefs of another such as Paul or any other mans second hand information when God Himself is the only one who can get to you His truths. Adam did not need Paul to make as Himself, Gen 3:22, Abraham didnt need Paul to teach him of God, Moses didnt need Paul to open up who God is, Jesus certainly didnt need any man teach him, 120 finally got the reality of God in an upper room.

Steve, I have received the same as we are supposed to as these did, I can relate to the very same things as these. If that is difficult for you to believe or understand then beliefs has you in chained.

Thats why I took Jesus advice on how to. After that same revelation of the Christ as Jesus received in Matt 3:16 I understand what Jesus really mean to be true, he said that in that day ye shall ask me noting but go to the Father for myself and He will give it me, John 16:23. And look at Jesus prayer to his God for me to be in Him and He in me as one as God was in Jesus and Jesus was in God as one.

Paul was slick, he even admitted that he used trickery to get people to follow him in his beliefs about a Christ. I can tell you now there are a lot more claiming to be a sinner then they are the saint.

BTW, the term Christ was introduced by Paul into language at Antioch, before he coined that term we were not called Christs, we were referred to as saints from the very beginning.

I know People hate me for my stance in the Father that is very obvious, for when I repeat Jesus for who he said we should be in the Father, holy pure, perfect, Im accused of blaspheme, liar, of the devil -- Jesus had that same problem for the very same reason.

I dont expect you will understand but I try. SO did Jesus and look how he was treated for the very same reason. SO did his disciples when they received from God the very same as Jesus receieved from Him. They all were hated as well and suffered their lives for it.

 

[JonHawk]

That doesnt make any sense for me. A person is of sin or he is of Christ born of God, born again to be like Him instead of like Paul or any other person. 1 John 3 is very clear that God takes away the sins of this world. How did God fail to do that in Paul or any other who's confession they are sinners instead of the righteousness of God in Christ?

For starters all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Rom 3:23
If you say you have not sinned, the truth is not in you; 1 John 1:8

Jesus was Gods example to me for who I should be in Him.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

How many times do I have to sate that I do not have a belief about God or Jesus.

We heard you loud and clear the first time, Gary Mac "I do reject redemption through Jesus"

Gods manifestation of Himself in me just as He manifested Himself in Jesus in Matt 3:16, is not a belief but the reality of His purpose.
God came personally and revealed Himself - Himself just as He will do today if people will drop the beliefs and recieve His reality.

The reality, however, is found in Christ. Col 2:17

How many of these do you know who are as Jesus was as God sent and commands of us if we are to be His child, son, and that person of Christ who is anointed by God Himself? Thats why I took Jesus advice on how to. After that same revelation of the Christ... look at Jesus prayer to his God for me to be in Him and He in me as one as God was in Jesus and Jesus was in God as one.

Now that faith has come we are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:25-29

Steve, I have received the same as we are supposed to as these did, I can relate to the very same things as these. If that is difficult for you to believe or understand then beliefs has you in chained.

But if the Son sets you free, you are free indeed.

Paul was slick, he even admitted that he used trickery to get people to follow him in his beliefs about a Christ. I can tell you now there are a lot more claiming to be a sinner then they are the saint. BTW, the term Christ was introduced by Paul into language at Antioch, before he coined that term we were not called Christs, we were referred to as saints from the very beginning.

At this point gnostics are in unchartered waters since they ignore that we are set apart in Christ Jesus.

He takes away the first that He may establish the second. And in accordance with this we [who believe in the gospel of salvation] have been sanctified [that is, set apart as holy for God and His purposes] through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed) once for all. Heb 10:9-10

I know People hate me for my stance in the Father that is very obvious, for when I repeat Jesus for who he said we should be in the Father, holy pure, perfect, Im accused of blaspheme, liar, of the devil -- Jesus had that same problem for the very same reason.

The unbelieving Jews, who presumed to be God's people were enraged because Jesus, who they thought was a mere man said He was the Son of God, John 10:36 the Messiah - The high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed? “I am,” said Jesus. Mark 14:61-64
And He also said, "If you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." John 8:24

 

[Gary Mac]

For starters all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Rom 3:23
If you say you have not sinned, the truth is not in you; 1 John 1:8

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

We heard you loud and clear the first time, Gary Mac "I do reject redemption through Jesus"

The reality, however, is found in Christ. Col 2:17

Now that faith has come we are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:25-29

But if the Son sets you free, you are free indeed.

At this point gnostics are in unchartered waters since they ignore that we are set apart in Christ Jesus.

He takes away the first that He may establish the second. And in accordance with this we [who believe in the gospel of salvation] have been sanctified [that is, set apart as holy for God and His purposes] through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed) once for all. Heb 10:9-10

The unbelieving Jews, who presumed to be God's people were enraged because Jesus, who they thought was a mere man said He was the Son of God, John 10:36 the Messiah - The high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed? “I am,” said Jesus. Mark 14:61-64
And He also said, "If you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." John 8:24

Because the ways of God to you is gnostic lies you dont have a clue what it is to have Gods Spirit as your own because to you his ways is gnostic lies.

The example that God gives us is not that of a good man oe even a good Christian but of Goid Himself that you reject as gnostic lies. Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect. Show to the other man what God has done in you but you cant because His ways to be like Him is a gnostic lie just as you state over and over when Jesus is quoted to you. If you was of Christ you would have ample opportunity in real life to demonstrate in yourself that what Jesus demonstrations of His God who was in him.

Jon -- prove you are perfect even as the God Jesus worshiped, obeyed, and prayed to is perfect. Prove it Jon. Prove that you are like Him as Jesus was with He in you and you in Him are one as Jesus was one in Him in John 17. You cant can you, you dont have a clue what that would intel that is why you accuse God and Jesus as gnostic liars !!!!!!

 

[JonHawk]

Because the ways of God to you is gnostic lies you dont have a clue what it is to have Gods Spirit as your own because to you his ways is gnostic lies.
The example that God gives us is not that of a good man oe even a good Christian but of Goid Himself that you reject as gnostic lies. Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect. Show to the other man what God has done in you but you cant because His ways to be like Him is a gnostic lie just as you state over and over when Jesus is quoted to you. If you was of Christ you would have ample opportunity in real life to demonstrate in yourself that what Jesus demonstrations of His God who was in him.
Jon -- prove you are perfect even as the God Jesus worshiped, obeyed, and prayed to is perfect. Prove it Jon. Prove that you are like Him as Jesus was with He in you and you in Him are one as Jesus was one in Him in John 17. You cant can you, you dont have a clue what that would intel that is why you accuse God and Jesus as gnostic liars !!!!!!

Again, the gnostic liars is whoever rejects that Jesus is the Christ.

God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. Col 1:27-28

 

[Our Lord's God]

I see an OP that quotes Jesus' statement....

Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.

So, here's my question...


How do we achieve this "be perfect"?

As perfect in my opinion is an unattainable ideal, it strikes me that it's necessary to learn what this perfect means.....


So, thankfully, the Greek language actually has a description.

Turns out the word, in Greek, is telioo.

Mat 5:48 OGNT
Ἔσεσθε Esesthe esesθe to be
οὖν oun un then
ὑμεῖς hymeis iymiys you
τέλειοι teleioi teliyiy perfect
ὡς hōs os as
ὁ ho o the
Πατὴρ Patēr patiyr father
ὑμῶν hymōn iymon of you
ὁ ho o the
οὐράνιος ouranios uraniyos heavenly
τέλειός teleios teliyos perfect
ἐστιν estin estiyn is.¶

The Strong's # is G5046

It means
complete.
Whole
Entire, lacking nothing.

G5046​

Original: τέλειος

Transliteration: teleios

Phonetic: tel'-i-os

Thayer Definition:

1. brought to its end, finished
2. wanting nothing necessary to completeness
3. perfect
4. that which is perfect
   1. consummate human integrity and virtue
   2. of men
      1. full grown, adult, of full age, mature

Origin: from G5056

TDNT entry: 09:07,1

Part(s) of speech: Adjective

Strong's Definition: From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

Total KJV Occurrences: 19

perfect (9)
Mat 5:48; Mat 5:48; Mat 19:21; Rom 12:2; Col 1:28; Col 4:12; Jas 1:4; Jas 1:17; 1Jn 4:18 8

them that are perfect (1)
1Co 2:6

that which is perfect (1)
1Co 13:10

men (1)
1Co 14:20

a perfect (1)
Eph 4:13

be perfect (1)
Phi 3:15

of full age (1)
Heb 5:14

more perfect (1)
Heb 9:11

her perfect (1)
Jas 1:4

the perfect (1)
Jas 1:25

is a perfect (1)
Jas 3:2


Heb 10:14 OGNT
μιᾷ mia miya one
γὰρ gar gar for
προσφορᾷ prosphora prosfora offering
τετελείωκεν teteleiōken teteliyoken to perfect
εἰς eis iys toward
τὸ to to the
διηνεκὲς diēnekes ðiyiynekes perpetual
τοὺς tous tus who
ἁγιαζομένους hagiazomenous ayiyazomenus to sanctify.


G5048
Original: τελειόω

Transliteration: teleioō

Phonetic: tel-i-o'-o

Thayer Definition:

to make perfect, complete
to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end
to complete (perfect)
add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full
to be found perfect
to bring to the end (goal) proposed
to accomplish
bring to a close or fulfilment by event
of the prophecies of the scriptures
Origin: from G5046

TDNT entry: 09:19,1

Part(s) of speech: Verb

Strong's Definition: From G5046; to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.

Total KJV Occurrences: 33

when they had fulfilled (1)
Luk 2:43

day i shall be perfected (1)
Luk 13:32

to finish (1)
Joh 4:34

finish (1)
Joh 5:36

i have finished (1)
Joh 17:4

made perfect (5)
Joh 17:23; Heb 12:23; Jas 2:22; 1Jn 4:17; 1Jn 4:18 5

might be fulfilled (1)
Joh 19:28

that i might finish (1)
Act 20:24

is made perfect (1)
2Co 12:9

perfect (5)
Phi 3:12; Heb 2:10; Heb 7:19; Heb 9:9; Heb 10:1 5

to make (1)
Heb 2:10

being made perfect (1)
Heb 5:9

made (1)
Heb 7:19

who is consecrated (1)
Heb 7:28

make (2)
Heb 9:9; Heb 10:1

he hath perfected (1)
Heb 10:14

they (1)
Heb 11:40

should (1)
Heb 11:40

be made perfect (1)
Heb 11:40

was (1)
Jas 2:22

is (2)
1Jn 2:5; 1Jn 4:18

perfected (2)
1Jn 2:5; 1Jn 4:12

In plain English, God has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

I.e., this is a really good thing.
We obviously can't perfect ourselves. For those who are older among us, we've figured that out.

So, God has given us his perfection.

Try reading the context of Matthew 5:48. Your favorite doctrine(s) is not the context.

 

[JonHawk]

In plain English, God has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.​

add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full to be found perfect to bring to the end (goal)
proposed to accomplish bring to a close or fulfilment by event of the prophecies of the scriptures

I.e., this is a really good thing. We obviously can't perfect ourselves. For those who are older among us, we've figured that out.
So, God has given us his perfection.

Try reading the context of Matthew 5:48. Your favorite doctrine(s) is not the context.

The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul, the testimony of the Lord is sure and makes people wise. Psalm 19:7

Now I know that the Lord saves His anointed.
May He send you help from the sanctuary, And strengthen you out of Zion; Psalm 20

 

[SteveB]

Try reading the context of Matthew 5:48. Your favorite doctrine(s) is not the context.

Ok. Let's do this.

Matthew 5:1-48 NKJV — And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him. Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying: “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled. Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God. Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. “Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men. “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. “Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. “Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. “For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. “Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. “For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ “But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. “Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, “leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. “Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. “Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny. “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ “But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. “If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. “And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. “Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ “But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery. “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ “But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; “nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. “Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. “But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one. “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ “But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. “If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. “And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. “Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away. “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ “But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, “that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. “For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? “And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? “Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
Matthew 6:1-34 NKJV — “Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. “Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. “But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, “that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly. “And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. “But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. “And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. “Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. “In this manner, therefore, pray:

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors. And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. “But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. “Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. “But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, “so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; “but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. “For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. “The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. “But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness! “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. ....


There. Is that context enough for you?

Looking at the context, it looks like it's a detailed description of what perfect/teleioo is to appear as in the lives of the followers of Jesus.

In looking at what Peter tells us in 2 Peter 1:2-11, I'd say that it's a good match between what Jesus describes in the sermon on the mount.

So, how do you want to do this?

Are you living as Jesus said in Matthew 5 through 7?

I'm liking that Jesus has sanctified us through the offering of his body, once and for all.
And that he's given us his perfection as we're being sanctified.

I note too in Colossians 2:10, he has made us complete in Him.

 

[SteveB]

The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul, the testimony of the Lord is sure and makes people wise. Psalm 19:7

Yep! Isn't that incredible?
This is what makes the Hebrews 10:10-14 so profound and important to us.

Now I know that the Lord saves His anointed.
May He send you help from the sanctuary, And strengthen you out of Zion; Psalm 20

???❣

Thank God Jesus came to save us from our sin and the judgment due sin.

 

[JonHawk]

Yep! Isn't that incredible?
This is what makes the Hebrews 10:10-14 so profound and important to us.

???❣

Thank God Jesus came to save us from our sin and the judgment due sin.

For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified. John 17:19 Hebrews 2:11

 

[SteveB]

For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified. John 17:19 Hebrews 2:11

Yep.

Which makes the importance of his sanctifying us through the offering of his body and perfecting us all the more important.