He has perfected forever.....

You see, right there is why you're a blind gnostic. John 14:6

1 Timothy 2:5-6

Hebrews 9:15
For you I agree but for we who has receieved the Christ to be anointed of God is His way, that is exactly why to you who has not met the Christ and in thaT HIS Ways is gnostic like because you are without the same as Jesus had from Go who opens up all of His heaven int anyone who does not see His ways as gnostic lies.

Why dont you quote Jesus in his ways for perfection instead of Paul in his ways for imperfections?
Ill tell you why because you like the sins of Paul more then you like the perfections of God be your own per4fections. Thats is impossible for just as you make excuse to charge Him as a liar.

Evidently it is humiliating for you must come to the same place in the Father as Jesus was in the Father because of your accusations of His ways is gnostic lies.

Think on these things that Jesus said you would be like him in the Father and how you refuse Jesus to do so.

Test yourself -- are you really perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect? If not, and you keep stating you are a sinner instead, then you have turned your back from His ways to your own ways, in sin. And all the stipulations Jesus placed on you to be like him in the Father. In ever degree that you are not real you defiantly dispute with God and Jesus in their ways for holiness and instead accuse them in their ways as gnostic liars. You are and will pay that price for doing so.

God cannot put you in a responsible moral being and without sin, that of Christ, until you are conscious that you need it, and obviously you dont need His gnostic lies that you accuse Him of.
 
For you I agree but for we who has receieved the Christ
You're confused as the day is long. If you received the Christ, (Gal 3:26-28) you would be a fellow believer
not a gnostic who thinks he is like God (Gen 3:22) and rejects Christ. Gary Mac "I do reject redemption through Jesus".
Why dont you quote Jesus... Thats is impossible for just as you make excuse to charge Him as a liar.
I have, but gnostics are hard of hearing. "If you do not believe that I am the Christ, you will die in your sins." John 8:24
Test yourself --
To see whether you are in the faith; Do you not Know yourselves, that Christ Jesus is in you, unless you be gnostic reprobates.
 
You're confused as the day is long. If you received the Christ, (Gal 3:26-28) you would be a fellow believer
not a gnostic who thinks he is like God (Gen 3:22) and rejects Christ. Gary Mac "I do reject redemption through Jesus".
Na' Gods Spirit is never confusing, it is only confusing to those who do not have His Spirit.
But you are correct that I reject the doctrine of redemption through Jesus, for my redemption came from God just as Jesus redemption came from God Himself in Matt 3:16.

Your problem is you never have been redeemed to God.
I have, but gnostics are hard of hearing.
On the contrary, His word is who I am. Perhaps you should try listening to Him sometime instead of accusing Him as a gnostic liar.
"If you do not believe that I am the Christ, you will die in your sins." John 8:24
So Tre, but for the agnostics who see His ways as gnostic lies, and the sinner you say you are, well it is what it is and you certainly will die in sin.

Awww but we who are of Christ live His life in righteousness that is without sin, cannot sin because we are born of God and not bow you nor Paul nor anyone else as you are born of Paul as a sinner instead.
To see whether you are in the faith; Do you not Know yourselves, that Christ Jesus is in you, unless you be gnostic reprobates.
Jesus Christ is not in a anyone, that is impossible and if you believe that a man can be in you then you need mental help. But one thing is certain in your doctrine, Paul as a sinner defiantly is in you, you two are one.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

That just doesnt work for you does it? Think on why the ways of God is evil gnostic lies for you. This is pretty self explanatory and the reason you never quote Jesus in what he said you should be and would be if you really did follow him to the Father.
 
I see an OP that quotes Jesus' statement....

Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.

So, here's my question...


How do we achieve this "be perfect"?

As perfect in my opinion is an unattainable ideal, it strikes me that it's necessary to learn what this perfect means.....


So, thankfully, the Greek language actually has a description.

Turns out the word, in Greek, is telioo.

Mat 5:48 OGNT
Ἔσεσθε Esesthe esesθe to be
οὖν oun un then
ὑμεῖς hymeis iymiys you
τέλειοι teleioi teliyiy perfect
ὡς hōs os as
ho o the
Πατὴρ Patēr patiyr father
ὑμῶν hymōn iymon of you
ho o the
οὐράνιος ouranios uraniyos heavenly
τέλειός teleios teliyos perfect
ἐστιν estin estiyn is.¶

The Strong's # is G5046

It means
complete.
Whole
Entire, lacking nothing.

G5046

Original: τέλειος

Transliteration: teleios

Phonetic: tel'-i-os

Thayer Definition
:

  1. brought to its end, finished
  2. wanting nothing necessary to completeness
  3. perfect
  4. that which is perfect
    1. consummate human integrity and virtue
    2. of men
      1. full grown, adult, of full age, mature
Origin: from G5056

TDNT entry: 09:07,1

Part(s) of speech: Adjective

Strong's Definition: From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

Total KJV Occurrences: 19

perfect (9)
Mat 5:48; Mat 5:48; Mat 19:21; Rom 12:2; Col 1:28; Col 4:12; Jas 1:4; Jas 1:17; 1Jn 4:18 8

them that are perfect (1)
1Co 2:6

that which is perfect (1)
1Co 13:10

men (1)
1Co 14:20

a perfect (1)
Eph 4:13

be perfect (1)
Phi 3:15

of full age (1)
Heb 5:14

more perfect (1)
Heb 9:11

her perfect (1)
Jas 1:4

the perfect (1)
Jas 1:25

is a perfect (1)
Jas 3:2


Heb 10:14 OGNT
μιᾷ mia miya one
γὰρ gar gar for
προσφορᾷ prosphora prosfora offering
τετελείωκεν teteleiōken teteliyoken to perfect
εἰς eis iys toward
τὸ to to the
διηνεκὲς diēnekes ðiyiynekes perpetual
τοὺς tous tus who
ἁγιαζομένους hagiazomenous ayiyazomenus to sanctify.


G5048
Original: τελειόω

Transliteration: teleioō

Phonetic: tel-i-o'-o

Thayer Definition:

to make perfect, complete
to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end
to complete (perfect)
add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full
to be found perfect
to bring to the end (goal) proposed
to accomplish
bring to a close or fulfilment by event
of the prophecies of the scriptures
Origin: from G5046

TDNT entry: 09:19,1

Part(s) of speech: Verb

Strong's Definition: From G5046; to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.

Total KJV Occurrences: 33

when they had fulfilled (1)
Luk 2:43

day i shall be perfected (1)
Luk 13:32

to finish (1)
Joh 4:34

finish (1)
Joh 5:36

i have finished (1)
Joh 17:4

made perfect (5)
Joh 17:23; Heb 12:23; Jas 2:22; 1Jn 4:17; 1Jn 4:18 5

might be fulfilled (1)
Joh 19:28

that i might finish (1)
Act 20:24

is made perfect (1)
2Co 12:9

perfect (5)
Phi 3:12; Heb 2:10; Heb 7:19; Heb 9:9; Heb 10:1 5

to make (1)
Heb 2:10

being made perfect (1)
Heb 5:9

made (1)
Heb 7:19

who is consecrated (1)
Heb 7:28

make (2)
Heb 9:9; Heb 10:1

he hath perfected (1)
Heb 10:14

they (1)
Heb 11:40

should (1)
Heb 11:40

be made perfect (1)
Heb 11:40

was (1)
Jas 2:22

is (2)
1Jn 2:5; 1Jn 4:18

perfected (2)
1Jn 2:5; 1Jn 4:12

In plain English, God has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

I.e., this is a really good thing.
We obviously can't perfect ourselves. For those who are older among us, we've figured that out.

So, God has given us his perfection.
Oh that was a lot of unnecessary post content that completely ignored the direct, simple answer provided in scripture and therefore concluded with the wrong answer. 1 Corinthians 15 makes it clear we will not be made incorruptible until we reach the other side of resurrection. Corruptibleness, or perishableness, is a form of imperfection.

1 Corinthians 15:42-54
42
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly. 50Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality.....

On this side of the grave we remain corruptible. That is one of the problems to be solved and it is solved ONLY through the process of death and resurrection. God is perfecting us now. He finishes the job when He transforms us in resurrection.



Another thing to examine is the different words used for "perfect" in scripture because one of the words used (telion) is better translated as "mature," "complete," "consummate," or "finished." is when fermenting grapes reach fruition of maturation into wine. Another Greek word translated as "perfect" and used with similar meaning is "pleroo." Another Greek word is "hapas," which carries with it the connotation of wholeness. This is the term used in 1 Tim. 1:16 to speak of God's perfect patience, a perfectness that is directly related to God and therefore directly related to understand our need to be perfect as God is perfect. Furthermore, telios should be understood to be different than "holokleros," and "katartizo," which also mean "complete," or wholly finished. However, most importantly, Jesus is quoting from the Old Testament and the Hebrew word to which he is appealing is "tamim," which is a perfection that is NOT merely one of maturity, but a perfection that is absent any and all defect or imperfection. No occasion of the New Testament referencing the Old Testament should be examined solely in the Greek. On all those occasions the Hebrew should also be consulted. Matthew 5:48 is not the only place where perfection is directed and using only one verse to form doctrine is called "proof-texting." It should be avoided. The use of Strong's and Thayer in this op was good, but any examination of perfection must include the whole of scripture, not one verse treated as definitive in neglect all else that scripture states.

In addition, since the perfection of Hebrews 10:14 is further couched in our being made holy or sanctified that perfection or maturation should not be considered thoroughly completed since the holiness or sanctification is said to be ongoing. To do so would be to read the verse to say we are complete while still being completed. The better more wholly scriptural understanding would be to recognize we are in the process of being made, of being made into something different than what we once were and one day - only on the other side of resurrection - will we be incorruptible, imperishable, free of decay or rot and immortally so.
 
Oh that was a lot of unnecessary post content that completely ignored the direct, simple answer provided in scripture and therefore concluded with the wrong answer.
😳🤦🏾‍♂️🤣
Uh, ok. If you say so.



1 Corinthians 15 makes it clear we will not be made incorruptible until we reach the other side of resurrection. Corruptibleness, or perishableness, is a form of imperfection.

1 Corinthians 15:42-54
42
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly. 50Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality.....

On this side of the grave we remain corruptible. That is one of the problems to be solved and it is solved ONLY through the process of death and resurrection. God is perfecting us now. He finishes the job when He transforms us in resurrection.
Not really sure how, or in what manner this applies to God providing everything we need to know him and live a godly life, but ok.


Another thing to examine is the different words used for "perfect" in scripture because one of the words used (telion) is better translated as "mature," "complete," "consummate," or "finished."
Yep.
And?

is when fermenting grapes reach fruition of maturation into wine. Another Greek word translated as "perfect" and used with similar meaning is "pleroo." Another Greek word is "hapas," which carries with it the connotation of wholeness. This is the term used in 1 Tim. 1:16 to speak of God's perfect patience, a perfectness that is directly related to God and therefore directly related to understand our need to be perfect as God is perfect. Furthermore, telios should be understood to be different than "holokleros," and "katartizo," which also mean "complete," or wholly finished. However, most importantly, Jesus is quoting from the Old Testament and the Hebrew word to which he is appealing is "tamim," which is a perfection that is NOT merely one of maturity, but a perfection that is absent any and all defect or imperfection. No occasion of the New Testament referencing the Old Testament should be examined solely in the Greek. On all those occasions the Hebrew should also be consulted. Matthew 5:48 is not the only place where perfection is directed and using only one verse to form doctrine is called "proof-texting." It should be avoided. The use of Strong's and Thayer in this op was good, but any examination of perfection must include the whole of scripture, not one verse treated as definitive in neglect all else that scripture states.

In addition, since the perfection of Hebrews 10:14 is further couched in our being made holy or sanctified that perfection or maturation should not be considered thoroughly completed since the holiness or sanctification is said to be ongoing. To do so would be to read the verse to say we are complete while still being completed. The better more wholly scriptural understanding would be to recognize we are in the process of being made, of being made into something different than what we once were and one day - only on the other side of resurrection - will we be incorruptible, imperishable, free of decay or rot and immortally so.
Have you ever heard about the construct in biblical christianity known as our positional state?

It's also known as being "IN Christ", our position in Christ, and a few other terms.

This state of being perfected forever, those who are being sanctified, is a twofold reality.

1- because we have been positionally made Holy by the offering of the body of Jesus, once for all.
2- we are situationally being made increasingly Holy in our daily lives.

Thus, the perfection, completion, wholeness we have "in Christ" is positionally ours.

Paul describes it in 2 Corinthians 3, we are being changed from glory to glory.

It's also written in 2 Cor. 5:17, if any man be "IN CHRIST" they are a new creation. Old things have passed away. Behold! All things are made new.

In 5:21, God made Jesus to be sin for us, that we may be made the righteousness of God in Him.

For those who are in Christ, we have a twofold reality.

1- God has given us a legal standing before Him, because of what Jesus has done on our behalf.
2- we are in transition from what we were before coming to Jesus, to what we will become, fully transformed to be like Jesus, as John says, in 1 John 3:1-3.

I encourage you to do a word study on the phrases- In Christ, In Him, In Whom.

I find 90 uses of the phrase- In Christ.
58 uses of the phrase- In him.
And 10 uses of the phrase- In Whom.
158 uses. That's a lot.
Thus, to Jesus followers, this is an important construct.
 
😳🤦🏾‍♂️🤣
Uh, ok. If you say so.




Not really sure how, or in what manner this applies to God providing everything we need to know him and live a godly life, but ok.



Yep.
And?


Have you ever heard about the construct in biblical christianity known as our positional state?

It's also known as being "IN Christ", our position in Christ, and a few other terms.

This state of being perfected forever, those who are being sanctified, is a twofold reality.

1- because we have been positionally made Holy by the offering of the body of Jesus, once for all.
2- we are situationally being made increasingly Holy in our daily lives.

Thus, the perfection, completion, wholeness we have "in Christ" is positionally ours.

Paul describes it in 2 Corinthians 3, we are being changed from glory to glory.

It's also written in 2 Cor. 5:17, if any man be "IN CHRIST" they are a new creation. Old things have passed away. Behold! All things are made new.

In 5:21, God made Jesus to be sin for us, that we may be made the righteousness of God in Him.

For those who are in Christ, we have a twofold reality.

1- God has given us a legal standing before Him, because of what Jesus has done on our behalf.
2- we are in transition from what we were before coming to Jesus, to what we will become, fully transformed to be like Jesus, as John says, in 1 John 3:1-3.

I encourage you to do a word study on the phrases- In Christ, In Him, In Whom.

I find 90 uses of the phrase- In Christ.
58 uses of the phrase- In him.
And 10 uses of the phrase- In Whom.
158 uses. That's a lot.
Thus, to Jesus followers, this is an important construct.
Do you find anything specific I posted incorrect? If so then show me the correction. If not, then stop arguing with it and accept it as fact and truth.

Jesus directed his audience to be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect and, by extension, that applies to those of us who have received redemption and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, BUT Jesus was not speaking Greek. He was probably speaking Aramaic and it just so happens there's a good possibility the gospel of Matthew was originally written in Aramaic and later translated into Greek to reconcile with Mark's gospel. Either way, Jesus was not speaking Greek, but he was referencing the Tanakh, the Jewish scripture that day when he was speaking to Jews, teaching them from the scriptures he'd previously given them as the Logo of God that is God and was with God in the beginning.

No single verse in the Bible defines doctrine. Matthew 5:48 does not define perfection. This is especially so since English is, comparatively, a crude, blunt language lacking the many nuances of Greek and the idiomatic depth of Hebrew.


And if anyone finds anything specific incorrect then show me the correct information and I will adjust my posting accordingly. Otherwise, accept what is correct.
Have you ever heard about the construct in biblical christianity known as our positional state?
Yep.

Nothing I posted is in any way, shape, or form contradictory to the positional state we have in Christ. This was alluded to with the citing of Hebrews 10:14. The perfect active indicative conjugation is a prime example of the positional state, and it should never have been assumed I thought otherwise.




The fact remains we are not made perfect on this side of the grave. Otherwise, there would be now need for the grave or resurrection. 1 Corinthians is not the only place this is communicated. There are many verses that speak about our salvation being completed in the future, about the inheritance that awaits us, and much more pertaining to our perfection.

Any interest in discussing it? If not, then no further response is needed. I'll understand the silence as a lack of interest and appreciate it much more than snotty comments like, "Uh, ok, If you say so," since it was 1 Corinthians 15 that said so, not me.
 
I see an OP that quotes Jesus' statement....

Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.

So, here's my question...


How do we achieve this "be perfect"?

As perfect in my opinion is an unattainable ideal, it strikes me that it's necessary to learn what this perfect means.....


So, thankfully, the Greek language actually has a description.

Turns out the word, in Greek, is telioo.

Mat 5:48 OGNT
Ἔσεσθε Esesthe esesθe to be
οὖν oun un then
ὑμεῖς hymeis iymiys you
τέλειοι teleioi teliyiy perfect
ὡς hōs os as
ho o the
Πατὴρ Patēr patiyr father
ὑμῶν hymōn iymon of you
ho o the
οὐράνιος ouranios uraniyos heavenly
τέλειός teleios teliyos perfect
ἐστιν estin estiyn is.¶

The Strong's # is G5046

It means
complete.
Whole
Entire, lacking nothing.

G5046

Original: τέλειος

Transliteration: teleios

Phonetic: tel'-i-os

Thayer Definition
:

  1. brought to its end, finished
  2. wanting nothing necessary to completeness
  3. perfect
  4. that which is perfect
    1. consummate human integrity and virtue
    2. of men
      1. full grown, adult, of full age, mature
Origin: from G5056

TDNT entry: 09:07,1

Part(s) of speech: Adjective

Strong's Definition: From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

Total KJV Occurrences: 19

perfect (9)
Mat 5:48; Mat 5:48; Mat 19:21; Rom 12:2; Col 1:28; Col 4:12; Jas 1:4; Jas 1:17; 1Jn 4:18 8

them that are perfect (1)
1Co 2:6

that which is perfect (1)
1Co 13:10

men (1)
1Co 14:20

a perfect (1)
Eph 4:13

be perfect (1)
Phi 3:15

of full age (1)
Heb 5:14

more perfect (1)
Heb 9:11

her perfect (1)
Jas 1:4

the perfect (1)
Jas 1:25

is a perfect (1)
Jas 3:2


Heb 10:14 OGNT
μιᾷ mia miya one
γὰρ gar gar for
προσφορᾷ prosphora prosfora offering
τετελείωκεν teteleiōken teteliyoken to perfect
εἰς eis iys toward
τὸ to to the
διηνεκὲς diēnekes ðiyiynekes perpetual
τοὺς tous tus who
ἁγιαζομένους hagiazomenous ayiyazomenus to sanctify.


G5048
Original: τελειόω

Transliteration: teleioō

Phonetic: tel-i-o'-o

Thayer Definition:

to make perfect, complete
to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end
to complete (perfect)
add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full
to be found perfect
to bring to the end (goal) proposed
to accomplish
bring to a close or fulfilment by event
of the prophecies of the scriptures
Origin: from G5046

TDNT entry: 09:19,1

Part(s) of speech: Verb

Strong's Definition: From G5046; to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.

Total KJV Occurrences: 33

when they had fulfilled (1)
Luk 2:43

day i shall be perfected (1)
Luk 13:32

to finish (1)
Joh 4:34

finish (1)
Joh 5:36

i have finished (1)
Joh 17:4

made perfect (5)
Joh 17:23; Heb 12:23; Jas 2:22; 1Jn 4:17; 1Jn 4:18 5

might be fulfilled (1)
Joh 19:28

that i might finish (1)
Act 20:24

is made perfect (1)
2Co 12:9

perfect (5)
Phi 3:12; Heb 2:10; Heb 7:19; Heb 9:9; Heb 10:1 5

to make (1)
Heb 2:10

being made perfect (1)
Heb 5:9

made (1)
Heb 7:19

who is consecrated (1)
Heb 7:28

make (2)
Heb 9:9; Heb 10:1

he hath perfected (1)
Heb 10:14

they (1)
Heb 11:40

should (1)
Heb 11:40

be made perfect (1)
Heb 11:40

was (1)
Jas 2:22

is (2)
1Jn 2:5; 1Jn 4:18

perfected (2)
1Jn 2:5; 1Jn 4:12

In plain English, God has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

I.e., this is a really good thing.
We obviously can't perfect ourselves. For those who are older among us, we've figured that out.

So, God has given us his perfection.

What tense was Jesus using? To be constantly and continuously perfect? Impossible.

Or, are we to experience moments of tasting perfection? i.e, being filled with the Spirit while thinking accurately and in oneness with sound doctrine that is applicable to a given situation you find yourself in?

Trouble is.. Very little sound doctrine is being taught today. Instead, too many seek something to train their emotions upon as to lose themself in the moment.

grace and peace ..........
 
What tense was Jesus using? To be constantly and continuously perfect? Impossible.
Which is why we are given a new, "positional" state of being "IN Christ."
By placing our trust in Jesus, we are translated into his federal headship, and go from being "in Adam" to being IN Christ.
Please read Romans 5.



Or, are we to experience moments of tasting perfection? i.e, being filled with the Spirit while thinking accurately and in oneness with sound doctrine that is applicable to a given situation you find yourself in?

Trouble is.. Very little sound doctrine is being taught today. Instead, too many seek something to train their emotions upon as to lose themself in the moment.

grace and peace ..........
To you as well.
 
Which is why we are given a new, "positional" state of being "IN Christ."
By placing our trust in Jesus, we are translated into his federal headship, and go from being "in Adam" to being IN Christ.
Please read Romans 5.
"Positional" truth is God letting us in on truth about us from his omniscient perspective ...
Telling us that what we are to be in the resurrection, and declares it as already being so, declared to be ours to have now.

Since God can not fail? He is free to tell us what will be as if it is a reality now, and as good as being in the present, though we can not see it.
 
I believe all of God's people were sanctified at one time by Christ's death. I don't believe that sanctification is by the Law, or any synergistic means, but Christ alone.

Hebrews 10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
 
I believe all of God's people were sanctified at one time by Christ's death. I don't believe that sanctification is by the Law, or any synergistic means, but Christ alone.
Sanstification is God manifest in you. Jesus was sanctified in Matt 3:16 just as we all are who has received from God His anointing.
Hebrews 10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Actually it is our body that is sacrificed, giving up that right to yourself and put on the Christ yourself to be Gods anointed one, Christ in you.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
These do this every Sunday morning, or Friday, or Saturday or Monday as the traditions of some.
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
And we all who has power come the same things sit with Him in His throne. Rev 3;21.
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
His enemy is those who are of self beliefs and made bylaws to regulate their beliefs for a god.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
And that offering is of yourself to God just as Jesus offered himself to his God and obeyed, prayed to and called his God Father. Same One that I do.
 
I believe all of God's people were sanctified at one time by Christ's death. I don't believe that sanctification is by the Law, or any synergistic means, but Christ alone.

Hebrews 10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
To whom does the "we" in verse 10 pertain? Does it pertain to those mentioned in Hebrews 1:2 or also those outside of that group?

Hebrews 1:1-2
God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

Is the "us" in Hebrews 10:10 the ones who are "in the Son," and those in the "heir of all things," or some other group? If Hebrews 1:2 informs the "us" of Hebrews 10:10 then we can justly say God has sanctified us at the time of Christ's death..... especially since verse 29 of chapter 10 rhetorically asks,

Hebrews 10:29
How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

If that blood sanctified the one who tramples it, then it also sanctified those in the Son.

God really is quite amazing. That He saw fit to save any is equally amazing and given what I know about myself and all of you ;), all the more so amazing.
 
To whom does the "we" in verse 10 pertain? Does it pertain to those mentioned in Hebrews 1:2 or also those outside of that group?
Those in Christ, Jew and Gentile, spiritual Israel.
Is the "us" in Hebrews 10:10 the ones who are "in the Son," and those in the "heir of all things," or some other group? If Hebrews 1:2 informs the "us" of Hebrews 10:10 then we can justly say God has sanctified us at the time of Christ's death..... especially since verse 29 of chapter 10 rhetorically asks,
Those in Christ, we agree.
 
Those in Christ, Jew and Gentile,
Correct.
spiritual Israel.
Incorrect. There's no such thing as "spiritual Israel." It's a phrase doctrinally added to our understanding of scripture based on specific theological biases and not something actually stated in scripture. It's like the term "spiritual death," or "sinful nature." Not terms scripture itself uses. Useful as devices for some understanding of scripture but requiring limits for use.

When the term "Israel" was first used it referred to Isaac, the son of promise, the "monogenes" of Abraham (Isaac's origin being the promise of God, a foreshadowing of God's own Son, monogenes sarx egenetos). That term was transferred to the nation state of Israel. From the Hebrews' perspective at that time, that was understood as a matter of bloodline and geo-political nation-state status but you won't find God using that name in that manner soteriologically. In the New Testament, the later revelation, we find the older revelation better revealed with more substance. That which was previously veiled was unveiled. In the newer revelation we find "Israel" defined as Jesus, and then as those who live by faith and those who are of the promise(s) of God and never once is it about bloodline. There are no Jews in Christ ;). Not all who are descended from Abraham are his descendants.

This is one of the many places the Jews got their own scripture wrong. Paul himself - a Jewish convert to Christ - declared unabashedly not all Israel is Israel. They are NOT Israel, and had he not used "Israel" in the first mention we'd all understand not all who call themselves Israel are Israel. The Jewish leaders during the incarnation indignantly - and wrongly - declared themselves descendants of Abraham. Jesus told their father was the devil 🤨😯😢.

This is digressive of the op but I can walk with you through the scriptures' use of "Israel" to prove the above if you like. However, I'd prefer the matter of the pre-existing monergistically-initiated covenant be addressed, resolved, and concluded before we do that.
Those in Christ, we agree.
(y)
 
Sanstification is God manifest in you. Jesus was sanctified in Matt 3:16 just as we all are who has received from God His anointing.

Actually it is our body that is sacrificed, giving up that right to yourself and put on the Christ yourself to be Gods anointed one, Christ in you.

These do this every Sunday morning, or Friday, or Saturday or Monday as the traditions of some.

And we all who has power come the same things sit with Him in His throne. Rev 3;21.

His enemy is those who are of self beliefs and made bylaws to regulate their beliefs for a god.

And that offering is of yourself to God just as Jesus offered himself to his God and obeyed, prayed to and called his God Father. Same One that I do.
Are crazy people sanctified if they believe in Christ?
 
I see an OP that quotes Jesus' statement....

Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.

So, here's my question...


How do we achieve this "be perfect"?

As perfect in my opinion is an unattainable ideal, it strikes me that it's necessary to learn what this perfect means.....


So, thankfully, the Greek language actually has a description.

Turns out the word, in Greek, is telioo.

Mat 5:48 OGNT
Ἔσεσθε Esesthe esesθe to be
οὖν oun un then
ὑμεῖς hymeis iymiys you
τέλειοι teleioi teliyiy perfect
ὡς hōs os as
ho o the
Πατὴρ Patēr patiyr father
ὑμῶν hymōn iymon of you
ho o the
οὐράνιος ouranios uraniyos heavenly
τέλειός teleios teliyos perfect
ἐστιν estin estiyn is.¶

The Strong's # is G5046

It means
complete.
Whole
Entire, lacking nothing.

G5046

Original: τέλειος

Transliteration: teleios

Phonetic: tel'-i-os

Thayer Definition
:

  1. brought to its end, finished
  2. wanting nothing necessary to completeness
  3. perfect
  4. that which is perfect
    1. consummate human integrity and virtue
    2. of men
      1. full grown, adult, of full age, mature
Origin: from G5056

TDNT entry: 09:07,1

Part(s) of speech: Adjective

Strong's Definition: From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

Total KJV Occurrences: 19

perfect (9)
Mat 5:48; Mat 5:48; Mat 19:21; Rom 12:2; Col 1:28; Col 4:12; Jas 1:4; Jas 1:17; 1Jn 4:18 8

them that are perfect (1)
1Co 2:6

that which is perfect (1)
1Co 13:10

men (1)
1Co 14:20

a perfect (1)
Eph 4:13

be perfect (1)
Phi 3:15

of full age (1)
Heb 5:14

more perfect (1)
Heb 9:11

her perfect (1)
Jas 1:4

the perfect (1)
Jas 1:25

is a perfect (1)
Jas 3:2


Heb 10:14 OGNT
μιᾷ mia miya one
γὰρ gar gar for
προσφορᾷ prosphora prosfora offering
τετελείωκεν teteleiōken teteliyoken to perfect
εἰς eis iys toward
τὸ to to the
διηνεκὲς diēnekes ðiyiynekes perpetual
τοὺς tous tus who
ἁγιαζομένους hagiazomenous ayiyazomenus to sanctify.


G5048
Original: τελειόω

Transliteration: teleioō

Phonetic: tel-i-o'-o

Thayer Definition:

to make perfect, complete
to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end
to complete (perfect)
add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full
to be found perfect
to bring to the end (goal) proposed
to accomplish
bring to a close or fulfilment by event
of the prophecies of the scriptures
Origin: from G5046

TDNT entry: 09:19,1

Part(s) of speech: Verb

Strong's Definition: From G5046; to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.

Total KJV Occurrences: 33

when they had fulfilled (1)
Luk 2:43

day i shall be perfected (1)
Luk 13:32

to finish (1)
Joh 4:34

finish (1)
Joh 5:36

i have finished (1)
Joh 17:4

made perfect (5)
Joh 17:23; Heb 12:23; Jas 2:22; 1Jn 4:17; 1Jn 4:18 5

might be fulfilled (1)
Joh 19:28

that i might finish (1)
Act 20:24

is made perfect (1)
2Co 12:9

perfect (5)
Phi 3:12; Heb 2:10; Heb 7:19; Heb 9:9; Heb 10:1 5

to make (1)
Heb 2:10

being made perfect (1)
Heb 5:9

made (1)
Heb 7:19

who is consecrated (1)
Heb 7:28

make (2)
Heb 9:9; Heb 10:1

he hath perfected (1)
Heb 10:14

they (1)
Heb 11:40

should (1)
Heb 11:40

be made perfect (1)
Heb 11:40

was (1)
Jas 2:22

is (2)
1Jn 2:5; 1Jn 4:18

perfected (2)
1Jn 2:5; 1Jn 4:12

In plain English, God has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

I.e., this is a really good thing.
We obviously can't perfect ourselves. For those who are older among us, we've figured that out.

So, God has given us his perfection.
God has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

And here we have Eternal Security.
 
God has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

And here we have Eternal Security.
That is called "positional truth."

God can declare us perfected because its impossible for God to fail to getting our souls to be placed in perfect resurrection bodies.
He already sees what will be, as absolutely already being. That is "positional truth."

Positional truth teaches us to think with God, and to think like God.
 
Are crazy people sanctified if they believe in Christ?
The Devil believes in Christ and knows the Christ well, that does not mean he is of Christ to be Gods anointed.

Crazy people? Jesus was deemed crazy to the Jews who had him crucified for that craziness didnt they?
 
The Devil believes in Christ and knows the Christ well, that does not mean he is of Christ to be Gods anointed.

Crazy people? Jesus was deemed crazy to the Jews who had him crucified for that craziness didnt they?

Gary? I am not looking for excuses.

I am talking about real crazy people. Like those who we used to see in mental institutions that claimed to be Jesus.

Are crazy people sanctified if they believed in Christ?
 
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