Heart Criteria for Heaven and Hell

Bocco

Active member
God talks directly to His souls.

His scripture is His Words to us directly in our souls.
a soul can meet Him directly, without a preacher in between.
Paul certainly believe that.
Rom 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” 14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent?

You tell Paul "Nah, I don't need no stinking preacher."
 

Bocco

Active member
Although that is true, all have received general revelation, making them without excuse and to which I would say they can seek God so that God could send them a missionary.
I've answered this before. The Australian Aborigines were running around with bones in their noses for maybe thousands of years, where did any of them seek God and have a missionary sent to them. If that were so, when the English showed up, they would have found Churches there. There were none.
 

Howie

Well-known member
Although that is true, all have received general revelation, making them without excuse and to which I would say they can seek God so that God could send them a missionary.
Is that from God's lips to your ears, or just your opinion?
 

Bocco

Active member
The ball's in their court to Surrender, and REPENT calling out to God to save them in the FAITH He gifts - OR to RUN AWAY back into death.
Rom 14:4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Yeah, yeah, I know, the Lord is able to make somebody stand only as long as they are willing.
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
Paul certainly believe that.
Rom 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” 14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent?

You tell Paul "Nah, I don't need no stinking preacher."
the greek does not use the term preacher... go translate on your own.
true though that horrible esau does use the term in his kjv version
 
Last edited:

Bocco

Active member
the greek does not use the term preacher... go translate on your own.
true though that horrible esau does use the term in his kjv version
And this is supposed to prove that a pagan can believe without hearing the gospel preached?

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

New American Standard Bible 1995
1 Corinthians 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

New International Version
21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
And this is supposed to prove that a pagan can believe without hearing the gospel preached?

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

New American Standard Bible 1995
1 Corinthians 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

New International Version
21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

If God speaks directly to a pagan and brings that person to Him, how would I or you stop God from that?
Christ saves us and just as He appeared in the OT, He can appear whenever He wants to NOW.

We are helpless humans. He is God and does His will.

Man cannot tell him what He is or is not allowed to do or who He can bring to Him.


GOD saves not preachers. I looked in the Greek. Perhaps it needs more study or to retranslate..
since when I looked, the termpreacher or any related term is not in 1 Cor. 1:21....
the term used is 'the proclamation'...which is the Word.
God is the Word. That makes sense, since it is the Word what saves.
 

Bocco

Active member
If God speaks directly to a pagan and brings that person to Him, how would I or you stop God from that?
I suppose God can do anything. He can make a donkey give the gospel to the pagan. God can write the gospel in the sky in the pagan's own language. If the pagan doesn't know how to read, God can make him understand it anyhow.

I am trying to just stick with what the New Testament tells us how God is going to work in the New Covenant era.
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
I suppose God can do anything. He can make a donkey give the gospel to the pagan. God can write the gospel in the sky in the pagan's own language. If the pagan doesn't know how to read, God can make him understand it anyhow.

I am trying to just stick with what the New Testament tells us how God is going to work in the New Covenant era.
im not telling you what to do... not my job.....
but i dont see what a donkey has to do with anything..
or why would God do anything like that ?
take care
 

Bocco

Active member
im not telling you what to do... not my job.....
but i dont see what a donkey has to do with anything..
or why would God do anything like that ?
You were giving me the general emotional view that pagans who never had any written or spoken revelation deserve to have God give them the chance to be saved by sending them a missionary. I've listened to enough people who think this way, that I know it when I hear it.

But just think, how would God send a missionary to the middle of the Amazon Jungle a thousand years ago. Most of the civilized world never even knew about the Amazon Jungle. The only way I could think of would be to just transport the missionary there, and then give him the supernatural power to speak that persons language.

If God has to use supernatural power to get the message to that pagan, why not just have a donkey that already lives there speak to him?
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
You were giving me the general emotional view that pagans who never had any written or spoken revelation deserve to have God give them the chance to be saved by sending them a missionary. I've listened to enough people who think this way, that I know it when I hear it.

But just think, how would God send a missionary to the middle of the Amazon Jungle a thousand years ago. Most of the civilized world never even knew about the Amazon Jungle. The only way I could think of would be to just transport the missionary there, and then give him the supernatural power to speak that persons language.

If God has to use supernatural power to get the message to that pagan, why not just have a donkey that already lives there speak to him?
I never said any of that at all.

Never mentioned missionaries once. Never said if pagans deserve this or that. Never said anything about jungles. Are you talking to someone else?

No clue why donkeys are involved here.
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
You were giving me the general emotional view that pagans who never had any written or spoken revelation deserve to have God give them the chance to be saved by sending them a missionary. I've listened to enough people who think this way, that I know it when I hear it.

But just think, how would God send a missionary to the middle of the Amazon Jungle a thousand years ago. Most of the civilized world never even knew about the Amazon Jungle. The only way I could think of would be to just transport the missionary there, and then give him the supernatural power to speak that persons language.

If God has to use supernatural power to get the message to that pagan, why not just have a donkey that already lives there speak to him?
Also, I never said that He would send missionaries or others
and I never said the word missionary at all or jungle...

I said that He will talk to Who He wants directly without anyone getting 'in between'
or regulating Him.

That was my only point.

priests do not decide if He speaks or to who.
That would be pope type logic.
 

HealTheLand

Active member
Also, I never said that He would send missionaries or others
and I never said the word missionary at all or jungle...

I said that He will talk to Who He wants directly without anyone getting 'in between'
or regulating Him.

That was my only point.

priests do not decide if He speaks or to who.
That would be pope type logic.

@Bocco


"the Word is very near to you" ... in your heart, and in your soul...

or it can be... if we learn how to listen... "you will hear a voice" ...


Deuteronomy 30:13
And it is not beyond the sea, that you should need to ask, 'Who will cross the sea to get it for us and proclaim it, that we may obey it?'


people can help ... but God is even nearer to the truth -- than people at times :) ministers only have so much truth

+ errors of Men thrown into the mix from / due to their theology schooling -- and that is where there will be 'unknown'


falsehoods -- that will / can mislead the -- less sincere as well as sincere maybe, a form of brainwashing --

constant in ways -- in Christianity groups and schools of thought... not from Spirit -- not from seeking God
 
Last edited:

Bocco

Active member
"the Word is very near to you" ... in your heart, and in your soul...
Isn't that "Word" the same Word that became flesh and talked to people in the gospels?

Joh 8:43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word.

Joh 8:47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”

Joh 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.

Above, Jesus is giving a cause and effect logical argument.

cause: Not being of God or a sheep.
effect: does not hear/believe.

Then who is able to hear?
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

And no, the Bible does not teach that goats turn into sheep when they believe. They have to be sheep to hear/believe in the first place. Goats stay goats.

Joh 10:16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

From the non-Calvinist Believers Bible Commentary:
The other sheep to whom the Lord referred here were the Gentiles. His coming into the world was especially in connection with the sheep of Israel, but He also had in mind the salvation of Gentiles. The Gentile sheep were not of the Jewish fold.

Notice, these Gentiles who had not heard the gospel yet were still called sheep. Jesus says "they will listen to His voice."
 
Top