Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same

Chalcedon

Well-known member
He is the same Savior, Redeemer, God, man, Resurrection, gospel, eternal life etc.............. Jesus as the book of Hebrews teaches is our present High Priest in heaven who always live to make intercession for us. He is changeless, the same Immutable Godman that He was then as He is now. His Deity not humanity did not change. He is our Eternal Godman fully human, fully Divine. One Divine Person with 2 natures. He is the One Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5.

Hebrews 13:8-9
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
9 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings

hope this helps !!!
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, and forever.

@Sethproton how is Jesus the same yesterday , today and forever and how is he different now then when He walked this earth ?
Of course Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever regarding his Deity because God doesn't change. Regarding his Humanity, he is the same because the Verse demands it. Regarding his Humanity, he is the same yesterday, today and forever in his Anthropos Essence because this is also demanded by Scripture...

As an Embryo, Jesus was an Anthropos Man! After his birth, Jesus is an Anthropos Man!! After his death, Jesus is forever an Anthropos Man!!!
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Of course Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever regarding his Deity because God doesn't change. Regarding his Humanity, he is the same because the Verse demands it. Regarding his Humanity, he is the same yesterday, today and forever in his Anthropos Essence because this is also demanded by Scripture...
Amen !
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, and forever.

@Sethproton how is Jesus the same yesterday , today and forever and how is he different now then when He walked this earth ?
Good Op and maybe @Sethproton could answer this for good measure :)

 

squirrelyguy

Active member
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, and forever.

@Sethproton how is Jesus the same yesterday , today and forever and how is he different now then when He walked this earth ?
I don't have the answer to this question: but I'm going to throw a verse up here for consideration in case anyone does think they do have a neat way of threading this needle.

Luke 2:52: "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men."

In light of that verse it seems to me that Hebrews 13:8 must be qualified in some sense; but to what extent we qualify it, I don't know. If Jesus increased in wisdom, then that means He ended up with more wisdom than He started with. That's change. But that's also change while on this earth, and doesn't necessarily mean that He's still changing since He ascended into heaven. I don't know how to thread this needle.
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
I don't have the answer to this question: but I'm going to throw a verse up here for consideration in case anyone does think they do have a neat way of threading this needle.

Luke 2:52: "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men."

In light of that verse it seems to me that Hebrews 13:8 must be qualified in some sense; but to what extent we qualify it, I don't know. If Jesus increased in wisdom, then that means He ended up with more wisdom than He started with. That's change. But that's also change while on this earth, and doesn't necessarily mean that He's still changing since He ascended into heaven. I don't know how to thread this needle.
Not really since He has 2 distinct natures that are not mixed/ blended . So He can grow in wisdom from His humanly and know everything in His Deity.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Hebrews 13:8 is a statement as to Character/Nature. While "Character/Nature". There are different types of change. The seasons change. The weather changes. These "things" were designed to change. Such is not with the Character and Nature of Jesus Christ.
If you mean that Jesus grew in Wisdom and stature; sure. But Essentially Jesus has always been an Anthropos Man. Then, now and forever...

Let's bring the Personhood argument against Abortion into this discussion; is an Embryo a Person? If so, as an Embryo, Jesus was an Anthropos Man; right?
 
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ReverendRV

Well-known member
Could you define "Anthropos Man". I want to make certain that we are understanding one another.

(1Pe 1:20) Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Anthropos Man; IE the Categorization of what it means to be a Human Person. For instance, you as an Embryo Fell into the Category of an Anthropos Human Being; a real Person because of your Essential Nature. An Infant is also an Anthropos Man. The Bible calls the Resurrected Christ an Anthropos Man even now...
 
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ReverendRV

Well-known member
Thank you. I think I understand you now. You're referencing post Incarnation?

While I tend to believe in the Eternal bodily form of Jesus Christ, I can't say exactly what they mean prior to the Incarnation.

Thanks
A summation would be to say though we're an Embryo, an Infant, an Adult, or a Resurrected Man; all are different from each other, yet each of them belong to the Category of an Anthropos Man. When the Bible says Jesus is now and forever an Anthropos Man, that's what the Bible means. An Anthropos Man Essentially consists of a Flesh and Bone Human body...
 
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squirrelyguy

Active member
Not really since He has 2 distinct natures that are not mixed/ blended . So He can grow in wisdom from His humanly and know everything in His Deity.
However, the way Hebrews 13:8 is being used in the OP would rule out Jesus experiencing change as a man either. If by "Jesus Christ" we mean Jesus as He is, fully God and fully man (rather than just Jesus as a man, or just Jesus as God), then the words "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever" would rule out the possibility of change by Jesus in regards to either His human or divine nature. Now if you are willing to qualify Hebrews 13:8 by saying it refers to Christ merely in His divine nature, but not in His human nature, then that's up to you. I'm not arguing with it, I'm just pointing out that you are willing to qualify that verse too.
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
However, the way Hebrews 13:8 is being used in the OP would rule out Jesus experiencing change as a man either. If by "Jesus Christ" we mean Jesus as He is, fully God and fully man (rather than just Jesus as a man, or just Jesus as God), then the words "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever" would rule out the possibility of change by Jesus in regards to either His human or divine nature. Now if you are willing to qualify Hebrews 13:8 by saying it refers to Christ merely in His divine nature, but not in His human nature, then that's up to you. I'm not arguing with it, I'm just pointing out that you are willing to qualify that verse too.
It can apply to either nature or both since his humanity or deity never changed . He remained man while at the same time remained God. Both natures are immutable.
 
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squirrelyguy

Active member
It can apply to either nature or both since his humanity or deity never changed . He remained man while at the sane time remained God. Both natures are immutable.
So when you say that both natures are immutable; do you merely mean the fact that He is both fully God and fully man, or do you mean that nothing about Him changes? Which answer is supported by Hebrews 13:8 in your opinion?
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
There is no such thing as God being less than God. That is your misunderstanding of the Bible, not mine,
Again for the 100th time. Jesus is always God, but in order to become a man, He emptied Himself.
For some reason you don't like that the Bible says "He emptied Himself...becoming a man"
You jesus was/is less than the Father in His Deity.

nuff said
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
I know your answer. I know you agree with God’s word.

But Seth wants to discuss scripture, and I would like to know what he believes on this. I don’t know why he avoids such a simple question?
Maybe he is ashamed of his beliefs?

I’d answer it if he asked me.
I know he keeps @Sethproton running away from you and avoiding it like the plague
 
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