Hebrews 8

What is our Seventh-day Adventist root objection to the words of Hebrews 8:13?

Does it nullify any of our other SDA beliefs and teachings?

13. In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
What is our Seventh-day Adventist root objection to the words of Hebrews 8:13?
Does it nullify any of our other SDA beliefs and teachings?
13. In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13
AV Mt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

This a classic misunderstanding !!!

Jesus' blood is "the new testament", no where does it say that, the definition of sin has changed. DUH !!!

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
AV Mt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

This a classic misunderstanding !!!

Jesus' blood is "the new testament", no where does it say that, the definition of sin has changed. DUH !!!


In what way, do you believe that Hebrews 8:13 nullifies the definition of sin?
 

Victor

Active member
In what way, do you believe that Hebrews 8:13 nullifies the definition of sin?
Mike loves to distract you.
But you raised a good question - and yes, it nullifies a lot of Adventist teachings.
It is a part of a long discourse from Hebrews 7 through 10 that explains the change of dispensation from the first covenant from Mount Sinai to the new covenant in the Blood of Jesus Christ. It is written to a Hebrew church, using the details of the Law the recipients are familiar with.
  • The first covenant demanded change (Hebrews 7:12)
  • It was annulled (v.7:18)
  • It was charged with a fault that called for a new covenant (v.8:7)
  • It was rendered obsolete and ready to vanish away (v.8:13)
  • Jesus redeemed our transgressions under the first covenant and is now the Mediator of the new covenant (v.9:15)
  • He took the first covenant away by His own Hand, in order to establish that new covenant (v.10:9)
This epistle doesn't describe the condition the Gentile nations were faced with. Ephesians 2 deals with their redemption better.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
In what way, do you believe that Hebrews 8:13 nullifies the definition of sin?
"In what way, do you believe that Hebrews 8:13 nullifies the definition of sin?", You turned left, when you should have turned Right !!!

AV Ezk 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed [difference] between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

Do you believe, it is still a death judgment sin(un-repented) to break sabbath ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

DrPatti

New Member
"In what way, do you believe that Hebrews 8:13 nullifies the definition of sin?", You turned left, when you should have turned Right !!!

AV Ezk 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed [difference] between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.
Do you think that you are more righteous than the Children of Israel?
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Ro 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Do you think that you are more righteous than the Children of Israel?
AV Lk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

We all stand before GOD as sinners, before our names are "written in heaven".

AV Ex 32:32-33 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. 33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

GOD is salvation serious about unrepentant sin.

AV Ro 4:5-8 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 [Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Paul rarely talks about what sins do to a person's name in heaven as a Gospel salesman.

AV Re 3:5-6 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

But Jesus does.

Do you think Jesus will blot out names from "the book of life" in NT, as will GOD will in the OT ???

"Do you think that you are more righteous than the Children of Israel?", Of myself, Not before Jesus.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
Prologue:
AV Ro 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

AV Lk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

We all stand before GOD as sinners, before our names are "written in heaven".

AV Ex 32:32-33 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. 33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

GOD is salvation serious about unrepentant sin.

AV Ro 4:5-8 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 [Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Paul rarely talks about what sins do to a person's name in heaven as a Gospel salesman.

AV Re 3:5-6 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

But Jesus does.

Do you think Jesus will blot out names from "the book of life" in NT, as will GOD will in the OT ???

"Do you think that you are more righteous than the Children of Israel?", Of myself, Not before Jesus.

Yours in Christ, Michael
It is so refreshing to see that you, as a fellow Seventh day Adventist, accept that the Sinai covenant is obsolete.
 
Which covenant are you referring too ?????????


There is only one “first Covenant” mentioned in the book of Hebrews and that is the covenant made at Sinai.

There was only one covenant of record from Sinai that is referred to throughout the Bible

The “first covenant” is specifically mentioned in Hebrews 8:13; 9:18-20 and 10:9, in contrast to the new/second Covenant.

It is the covenant that the people Israel broke when they, and Aaron, made the Golden Calf.

Chapter 9, verses 18-20 says that it is the covenant from Sinai that was dedicated by blood as described in Exodus 24:1-8 where Moses wrote “all the words of the Lord” amd the people promised to do “all that the Lord has spoken.

It is the same covenant represented by the bondwoman, Hagar, in Galatians 4;21-31 which is called “THE LAW”.

Paul, in Galatians 3, characterized it as the “Schoolmaster” that was to bring us to Christ, telling us that it was given 430 years after the promise to Abraham - until the seed should come to whom the promise was made (Christ) and was in the hand of a mediator (Moses).


O
 

Fred

Well-known member
Hebrews 8:13
obsolete

BDAG (3rd Edition): treat the first covenant as obsolete Hb 8:13a (palaioō, page 751).

All the commands of the Old Covenant are obsolete. The only commands the Christian is to obey are the commands in the New Covenant. Interestingly, 9 out of the 10 Commandments are repeated in the New Covenant which means these 9 are to be obeyed. The Old Covenant command concerning the 7th day Sabbath does not have to be obeyed because it is not commanded in the New Covenant.
 
Do you think that you are more righteous than the Children of Israel?
Jesus taught that none did the law, John 7:19.

Game over for OT law!

But sabbath fraudsters who worship satan (false christs) will try to convince you they keep saturdays holy!

They cannot imagine they are on the big waterslide to hell.
 
There is only one “first Covenant” mentioned in the book of Hebrews and that is the covenant made at Sinai.

There was only one covenant of record from Sinai that is referred to throughout the Bible

The “first covenant” is specifically mentioned in Hebrews 8:13; 9:18-20 and 10:9, in contrast to the new/second Covenant.

It is the covenant that the people Israel broke when they, and Aaron, made the Golden Calf.

Chapter 9, verses 18-20 says that it is the covenant from Sinai that was dedicated by blood as described in Exodus 24:1-8 where Moses wrote “all the words of the Lord” amd the people promised to do “all that the Lord has spoken.

It is the same covenant represented by the bondwoman, Hagar, in Galatians 4;21-31 which is called “THE LAW”.

Paul, in Galatians 3, characterized it as the “Schoolmaster” that was to bring us to Christ, telling us that it was given 430 years after the promise to Abraham - until the seed should come to whom the promise was made (Christ) and was in the hand of a mediator (Moses).


O
So why, assuming schoolmaster theory, haven't the devil worshipping, 1844-idolatrous SDA's brought to the Jesus who could not sin?

EGWhite has you guys thinking He was sin-capable. The SDA jesus must have been lying at John 5:19. Satan is a liar. Quick spiritual math reveals the SDA's have been tricked into devil worship. Hardly Jesus obeyers or OT law observers! They were the lawless that Jesus speaks of in Matt 7:15-23. Notice no forgiveness mentioned!

SDA's have never kept a single day holy in their entire, blighted history. Deceived yes. Keepers of days holy, no.
 
It is so refreshing to see that you, as a fellow Seventh day Adventist, accept that the Sinai covenant is obsolete.
Is that what the liar, EGWhite, taught? Wasnt she an SDA?

Does Numbers 15:16 direct you to split the law up however you please? James 4:11, identifies SDA's who pick-and-choose, as non-doers of law. They are lawless.
 
Mike loves to distract you.
So he disobeys Jesus' command to let his yes be yes, and his no be no? And smokescreen things for you that he would not want you to do to him, violating Jesus' command at Matt 7:12, the Golden Rule? Man he sins alot! And he lies about keeping days holy, too?

I bet James 2:10 informs us he is a law breaker. Possibly a sabbath fraud too!

I wonder if he is the lawless Jesus speaks of in Matt 7:15-23, hinges on false prophets, dontcha know.

How will his punishment be any different than those who receive the mark of the beast?
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel; 2 Tim 2:8
Prologue:
AV Ro 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

AV Ro 4:5-8 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 [Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. Rom 4

By this gospel you are saved, unless you have believed in vain. 1 Cor 15
 
AV Mt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

This a classic misunderstanding !!!

Jesus' blood is "the new testament", no where does it say that, the definition of sin has changed. DUH !!!

Yours in Christ, Michael
So you do believe that the first Sinai Covenant is obsolete!

Thankyou.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Hb 8:8-11 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

I hope that you do not call GOD a liar from your understanding.

AV Jn 5:45-47 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is [one] that accuseth you, [even] Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

I hope that you do not call Jesus a liar from your understanding, as well.
So you do believe that the first Sinai Covenant is obsolete!
AV Hb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Which one was first, the One Moses saw in heaven, or the one Moses copied from heaven ??? <<< I know Jesus knows the right answer in Omniscience.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
Prologue:
AV Hb 8:8-11 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

I hope that you do not call GOD a liar from your understanding.

AV Jn 5:45-47 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is [one] that accuseth you, [even] Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

I hope that you do not call Jesus a liar from your understanding, as well.

AV Hb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Which one was first, the One Moses saw in heaven, or the one Moses copied from heaven ??? <<< I know Jesus knows the right answer in Omniscience.

Yours in Christ, Michael

I hope that you do not call Jesus a liar from your understanding of this verse as well.

💥“In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.”
Hebrews 8:13
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
I hope that you do not call Jesus a liar from your understanding of this verse as well.

💥“In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.”
Hebrews 8:13
I see you understand man's point of view.

So you can not tell me which covenant is older, in GOD's Point Of View ???

AV Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

So do you understand that the OT ALWAYS pointed to the NT, as the first ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
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